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VanemadUuemad
This is all rather strange.
I'm sure that Russia has never complained that Russians in Estonia lack the motivation to become Estonian citizens.
I'm sure that Russia has never complained that Russians in Estonia lack the motivation to become Estonian citizens.
Yesterday a new report was made public in Tallinn, whereby it is clear that the majority of young Russian-Estonians speak Estonian and have a more positive outlook on the future. The report goes on to say that there could be a possibility of language becoming a tool backfiring on job prospects for young Estonians, who do not speak as many languages as their young Russian counterparts. To be sure, the point relates to an almost non-existent level of Russian speakers among young Estonians. However, the marketplace in Estonia is tilted towards those participants with a fluent level of Russian, and as young Russian-Estonians are now better equipped than Estonians to work in the service industry, it is advisable for young Estonians to reconsider the economic advantage of speaking Russian to the same degree that Russian-Estonians now speak Estonian. The report points to the growing army of young Russians in Estonia who have successfully built careers in all major sectors of the Estonian Service Industry. Some people may remark upon this trend as the Soviet inspired post Cold War conquering of the Estonian marketplace with all the relevant free trade tools available. I tend to agree.
Oh dear, while I have great sympathy for those younger Russians who were born in Estonia...this is not good...this is surely very difficult for the Estonians who were victimized very brutally for many many many years. Now, in a free country, they still have to submit to the remnants of the Communist/Soviet autrocities. I hate to put it that way, but the reason I put it that way, is because Russia had been led by a politically inexperienced & young leader Vladimir Putin. Great that he has been able to get the economy going for Russia again, but politically and sentimentally....this is not good, this is very painful. This is just a painful blow and reminder...and we have to understand, that sometimes "economics" cannot take precedence over justice.
Interesting article too: Lithuania speaks: Nazi = Soviet – both illegal
http://www.eesti.ca/index.php?...
Interesting article too: Lithuania speaks: Nazi = Soviet – both illegal
http://www.eesti.ca/index.php?...
Europe is full on ...well...rhetoric, and good rhetoric at that. Especially the kind that likes to suck up to Russia. However, when the actualities of life hit home, then they can often reflect a picture that takes a little getting used to. Former Estonian TV queen Karmel Eikner is in one of this weekend's papers, with an article featuring Karmel's positive attitude to schooling her children in a Russian-language school. She wants her kids to be able to have a good command of the Russian accent, and now is the best time to start. Whether her attitude is one that will gather momentum among Estonian parents, we will need to wait to decide. However, the linguistic significance of Russian is so important, that both Political and Economic interests give Russia the thumbs up. Perhaps if the energy question we resolved sooner-and to the broader European and global interest-there may not be the need to look to Russia as having the intrinsic value that is now given credence by most of the global community.
What Maxim found may very well be true -- an Estonian mother sending her kids to a Russian school.
I wonder. Is this typical? (No.)
Is this the beginning of the next big trend? (Unlikely.)
Are an increasing number of Russian mothers sending their kids to Estonian schools? (Yes.)
Has Maxim noticed? (No.)
Does Maxim like licking Russian butt? (Yes.) Does Maxim like sticking it to the Estonians? (Yes.) Is Maxim stupid and crazy?
I wonder. Is this typical? (No.)
Is this the beginning of the next big trend? (Unlikely.)
Are an increasing number of Russian mothers sending their kids to Estonian schools? (Yes.)
Has Maxim noticed? (No.)
Does Maxim like licking Russian butt? (Yes.) Does Maxim like sticking it to the Estonians? (Yes.) Is Maxim stupid and crazy?
Russian? Better off teaching your kids Chinese if you want them to succeed in the future.
You might be right, Andres, because Russian as a culture is in trouble. With very low birth rates and life expectancy, the population of ethnic Russians is falling like a stone. In 50 years, there may be half as many of them as there are today. Meanwhile, Russia's muslims in the south and Chinese in the east are growing rapidly.
Putin has offered Estonia's Russians financial incentives to move to Russia. The Estonian government has done the same. So far, less than 100 have done so. Estonia's Russians obviously know something about Russia that Maximahv doesn't.
Putin has offered Estonia's Russians financial incentives to move to Russia. The Estonian government has done the same. So far, less than 100 have done so. Estonia's Russians obviously know something about Russia that Maximahv doesn't.
I'm in complete agreement with you concerning the falling birth rates in Russia. As it happens, the disproportionate levels of ethnic relationships has reached such a critical level, that since there are more muslims than Slavs to send to volatile outposts, then Russia has a genuine quandary on it hands, since it doesn't have foolproof certainty that Muslims will always point their guns in the direction Russia tells them to do. As far as Estonia Russians are concerned, then I think my recent comments in EE are proof enough of the fact that the free market and service industry have served to promote the lifestyle and cultural interests of local Russians, to a point where it will become somewhat of a problem if young Estonians don't begin to consider lifting the Russian language skills to at least the level of their slavic counterparts. It's obvious that Estonia is a better home for Russians than is Russia. With this should come a greater interest in the Orthodox religion, as well as samovar tea drinking becoming more popular than anything Starbucks could possibily offer.
Why do you keep mentioning the service industry? The service industry in Estonia is horrendous at best. Impolite servers, crappy food, high prices.
Sorry Maxim, but by saying, "I think my recent comments in EE are proof enough of the fact that...", you betray your delusional thinking. Merely saying something doesn't prove anything.
Such tacit assumptions thrown at the reader in a disjointed and and fragmented manner suggest a serious mental disorder -- schizophrenia.
Such tacit assumptions thrown at the reader in a disjointed and and fragmented manner suggest a serious mental disorder -- schizophrenia.
I've been to Eesti 4 times since 1978.
In 1990, I remember many russians working in the service industry. And there was hardly the service industry they have now. Last 2 times under free country, have shown me tons of banks, stores with actual food on the shelves, Estonian shopowners and Estonians working. And happy. And the Estonian Russians are much more accomodating & happier than before.
In 1990, I remember many russians working in the service industry. And there was hardly the service industry they have now. Last 2 times under free country, have shown me tons of banks, stores with actual food on the shelves, Estonian shopowners and Estonians working. And happy. And the Estonian Russians are much more accomodating & happier than before.
Your posting shows clear signs that you are completely in the know about changes in Estonia. Pity this can't be said about some other readers of EE.
On this point Maxim is correct.
It is wise to have fluency in many languages, especially in a small country, which depends on tourism and foreign trade for it's financial existence.
Just as it is good for all English speaking Canadians to have at least a minimal knowledge of the French language, all Estonians should have a good base in at least one other language. (English, Russian, Swedish, Finnish, German...)
It is wise to have fluency in many languages, especially in a small country, which depends on tourism and foreign trade for it's financial existence.
Just as it is good for all English speaking Canadians to have at least a minimal knowledge of the French language, all Estonians should have a good base in at least one other language. (English, Russian, Swedish, Finnish, German...)
As a matter of fact, educated Estonians under the age of 60 have learned Russian because they had to, English because they want to, and Finnish because Helsinki TV was their window onto the free world during the occupation.
Today, English is the second language of choice for Estonians, Russians and the rest of the world, for the obvious reasons.
It's odd that Maxim would chose to bark about languages. For psychological reasons, he can't speak anything with any degree of competence.
Today, English is the second language of choice for Estonians, Russians and the rest of the world, for the obvious reasons.
It's odd that Maxim would chose to bark about languages. For psychological reasons, he can't speak anything with any degree of competence.
"It's odd that Maxim would chose to bark about languages".
Anonymous, there isn't anything odd about reporting on a report that has everything to do with languages. Sometimes your logic is too hilarious to appreciate! The weekend has been full of news about the future of Estonian-Russians or Russian-Estonians, whichever term you prefer to use. And since the report deals with the need for Estonians to seriously consider lifting their Russian skills, this point is of complete and total interest to any Estonian under the age of 25 living in Estonia. Since you don't live in Estonia, it is a logical extension of the circumstances that you have very little interest in the subject, and that is why you find the whole matter so odd.
Anonymous, there isn't anything odd about reporting on a report that has everything to do with languages. Sometimes your logic is too hilarious to appreciate! The weekend has been full of news about the future of Estonian-Russians or Russian-Estonians, whichever term you prefer to use. And since the report deals with the need for Estonians to seriously consider lifting their Russian skills, this point is of complete and total interest to any Estonian under the age of 25 living in Estonia. Since you don't live in Estonia, it is a logical extension of the circumstances that you have very little interest in the subject, and that is why you find the whole matter so odd.
If language skills are important, why haven't you improved your own? Instead, you bark at Estonians to improve their Russian and, If you aren't completely insane, then you'd know that this comes at the cost of improving their English. That might suit you just fine, for your own crazy reasons, but it might not be the best advice for an ambitious young Estonian.
If I started writing my comments to you in Russian, I doubt very much if that would help improve our level of correspondence. However, seeing how much you dislike my postings, anything else may just be what is needed.
It has also been suggested that Maxim suffers with megalomania -- self-exaltation. Is that related to schizophrenia -- delusions accompanied by illogical argument?
You're saying that those nice Russian folk have come half way by learning Estonian and now it's up to us to learn Russian to balance things up.
If they already speak Estonian, where's the need?
And whose country is it anyway?
If they already speak Estonian, where's the need?
And whose country is it anyway?
I'm acquainted with an Estonian teenager in Tallinn who plays soccer. When his team plays a team composed of Russian boys, relations are conventional -- apart from the fact that they speak English to one another.
There's a Russian-Estonian married couple in Tallinn who speak English better than they speak each others' language. Taking the linguistic path of least resistance, theirs is an English-speaking household.
At first glance, this seems odd. Upon reflection, so be it. It's none of our business. Everyone is entitled to learn the languages of their own choice. Most definitely, it's not a matter for Maxim to adjudicate; nor should it put him into an incoherent barking frenzy.
Yes Maxim, Estonia's Russians would feel much more at home in Estonia if we catered to them so that they wouldn't have to learn Estonian -- an inconsequential langauge, in their view. That's all very magnanimous, Maxim. It only overlooks the fact that Estonians also want a place where they can feel at home and, apart from Estonia, I can't imagine where that might be. Can you? Perhaps we should ask Arnold Meri. He's the guy who says that he was there to (sic.) make sure that no rules were broken when innocent farm families were deported to Siberia.
Nobody hates you Maxim; but we certainly hate your anti-Estonian message. There is no doubt about that. And, for certain, we can't understand why you keep hammering us with it relentlessly. In case you're wondering, that's the reason why we think that you're a mentally-unbalanced, embittered loser. There's no doubt about that either. If you don't believe me, ask your mother.
There's a Russian-Estonian married couple in Tallinn who speak English better than they speak each others' language. Taking the linguistic path of least resistance, theirs is an English-speaking household.
At first glance, this seems odd. Upon reflection, so be it. It's none of our business. Everyone is entitled to learn the languages of their own choice. Most definitely, it's not a matter for Maxim to adjudicate; nor should it put him into an incoherent barking frenzy.
Yes Maxim, Estonia's Russians would feel much more at home in Estonia if we catered to them so that they wouldn't have to learn Estonian -- an inconsequential langauge, in their view. That's all very magnanimous, Maxim. It only overlooks the fact that Estonians also want a place where they can feel at home and, apart from Estonia, I can't imagine where that might be. Can you? Perhaps we should ask Arnold Meri. He's the guy who says that he was there to (sic.) make sure that no rules were broken when innocent farm families were deported to Siberia.
Nobody hates you Maxim; but we certainly hate your anti-Estonian message. There is no doubt about that. And, for certain, we can't understand why you keep hammering us with it relentlessly. In case you're wondering, that's the reason why we think that you're a mentally-unbalanced, embittered loser. There's no doubt about that either. If you don't believe me, ask your mother.
I should add in writing about the Estonian-Russian report disclosed last weekend, that the need for Russian language skills is aimed at the growing number of foreign speaking Russians visiting Estonia. It is not about catering to the language need of local Russians, although that plays a relatively small part in the overall service industry. Sure, there are a lot of English-speaking people coming to Estonia, but stats still speak about the fact that young Estonians or Russians who speak both of the respective languages to a degree that will benefit them in the Estonian marketplace will find that the need for both languages is by sheer geographical tyranny an insurpassable road.
"...the growing number of foreign speaking Russians visiting Estonia..."???
Who are you talking about and what language do they speak?
Who are you talking about and what language do they speak?
ok guys, stop it already.
Maxim. You always go first. Then the 2 or 3 who go by Anonymous pile on. After that nobody will quit.
So stop it Maxim. Its just an ugly dog fight. None of you have any fans or backers.
So stop it Maxim. Its just an ugly dog fight. None of you have any fans or backers.
Don't speak on my behalf by stating "none of you have any backers". You are showing the same attitude as Ilves. Give in to the Russians. If I see or hear someone such as Maxim insulting Estonians and Estonian females I will always speak up. So I agree with anonymous and he/she has my backing. This applies to "I Agree" and "dogfight". I just wonder if you are related both having no backbone. By the way your comments are hypocritical. If you call it a dog fight why are you jumping into the middle?
When did you say was the last time you visited Estonia? Could it really have been as recently as 10 years ago? Then it isn't surprising to find that the number of Finns that used to come here as vodka tourists have been since replaced by the hoards of very wealthy young Russian elite who make lightning visits to the Baltics quite frequently, on their way to purchasing yet another piece of land in Ida-Virumaa of somewhere slightly further west in neigbouring Finland. The Estonian marketplace panders to the interests of our Eastern neighbours who happen to own some of the world's largest portions of material wealth. To argue to the contrary simply shows your ignorance of Estonian developments.
are you speaking to me? i am the "anonymous" poster who mentioned I've been to eesti 4 times since 78. I'm sorry that I can't match the intellectual dialogue of Maxim or the other posters here. But yes, I have been to eesti twice in the past 10 years. and yes you're correct, first time many finns. 2nd time, there was quite an increase in land prices.
I beleive the government(s), of Eesti and Russia to be doing the right things at the current moment....
I believe once Russia can fully appreciate herself again and her beautiful russian culture, and let the manufactured reform of "communism" melt away...many Russians living in Estonia...may perhaps feel their mother call to them again and want to return to their homeland....just as eestlased maailmas are being called to Eesti now. Western Russia needs to find her spiritual grounds again.
What did Churchill once say? "Russia is like a riddle wrapped in a mystery in an enigma"...Just like our dear Maxim here.
I beleive the government(s), of Eesti and Russia to be doing the right things at the current moment....
I believe once Russia can fully appreciate herself again and her beautiful russian culture, and let the manufactured reform of "communism" melt away...many Russians living in Estonia...may perhaps feel their mother call to them again and want to return to their homeland....just as eestlased maailmas are being called to Eesti now. Western Russia needs to find her spiritual grounds again.
What did Churchill once say? "Russia is like a riddle wrapped in a mystery in an enigma"...Just like our dear Maxim here.
Thank you sooooo much, Sofia! In thoroughly enjoyed reading your posting, and there is no doubt whatsoever that you are totally in the know about what's happening in Estonia. Also, you have a level of politenes which is rare at this site, except for the incredible tolerance level that exists among the leadership of EE. Generally though it is hard to put one's case across, because there is a lot of Russian-bashing hatred that is so deeply embedded in a lot of Canadian Estonians. They think I'm either Russian, or they mistake me for being that infamous Torontonian EK. I don't know a thing about what Konze is up to these days, but let's hope he's doing better than he did back in his hometown. The strange thing about a lot of responsees here is that they are largelt infantile, crude, know very little about Estonian affairs and invoke plentiful portions of character assassination to whoever they take an immediate dislike. Unfortunately I am one such victim. However your response leads me to believe that in fact most Estonians abroad are genuinely interested in things Estonian, and appreciate much of the commentary provided here. The stupid nonsense and carry on of my critics is just par for the course. Thank you once again for your very level-headed posting! Maxim.
Thank you sooooo much, Sofia! In thoroughly enjoyed reading your posting, and there is no doubt whatsoever that you are totally in the know about what's happening in Estonia. Also, you have a level of politenes which is rare at this site, except for the incredible tolerance level that exists among the leadership of EE. Generally though it is hard to put one's case across, because there is a lot of Russian-bashing hatred that is so deeply embedded in a lot of Canadian Estonians. They think I'm either Russian, or they mistake me for being that infamous Torontonian EK. I don't know a thing about what Konze is up to these days, but let's hope he's doing better than he did back in his hometown. The strange thing about a lot of responsees here is that they are largelt infantile, crude, know very little about Estonian affairs and invoke plentiful portions of character assassination to whoever they take an immediate dislike. Unfortunately I am one such victim. However your response leads me to believe that in fact most Estonians abroad are genuinely interested in things Estonian, and appreciate much of the commentary provided here. The stupid nonsense and carry on of my critics is just par for the course. Thank you once again for your very level-headed posting! Maxim.
What's the bet that following a comment like this every Maxim-basher is going to come out of the closet and give him the next earful of what he doesn't need nor deserve? It'll be another passing parade of below the belt perversions aimed at getting at Maxi's goat.
Thank-you Maxim. I hope I'm polite and like to think about issues with a level-head.
I guess there is a lot of sensitivity between the relationships of Estonia and Russia. And if I’m not mistaken, this web site is Eesti-Elu Canada. And I’m guessing that most of the readers on this site…were directly involved with, or very close to an Estonian who endured the Soviet occupation and such events as the deportations to Siberia, before they escaped to Canada or endured the economic hardships of the communist government. The other readers would be Russians (such as yourself?) or non Estos who did not suffer the atrocities that Estonians did many years ago.
Do you think it perhaps isn't hatred towards Russia, but hatred towards the Soviet Regime.
I guess there is a lot of sensitivity between the relationships of Estonia and Russia. And if I’m not mistaken, this web site is Eesti-Elu Canada. And I’m guessing that most of the readers on this site…were directly involved with, or very close to an Estonian who endured the Soviet occupation and such events as the deportations to Siberia, before they escaped to Canada or endured the economic hardships of the communist government. The other readers would be Russians (such as yourself?) or non Estos who did not suffer the atrocities that Estonians did many years ago.
Do you think it perhaps isn't hatred towards Russia, but hatred towards the Soviet Regime.
And may I add….a regime that still hasn’t condemned the actions of these atrocities. I would be interested to know how Russians feel about this. Yes, we must, keep a level headedness when speaking of these issues & keep these sensitivities in mind, including you Maxim. The bashing comment, a little extreme.
My mother had discovered that her name was put on the list for deportations, for being married to a ferry captain, before she escaped Estonia. Her brother killed in Leningrad. I watch her, listen to others stories of the deportations at Kuditamisse Paev remembrances. A lively person but every year, she does the same thing. She is silent and in her own world, quiet until I drive her home, and then I watch her go through the psychological process of being triggered and remembering again what she went through. She has survived, but there is still something deep in there, an innocence lost.
So...what I'm trying to say is....oh...I don't know what I'm trying to say anymore......
My mother had discovered that her name was put on the list for deportations, for being married to a ferry captain, before she escaped Estonia. Her brother killed in Leningrad. I watch her, listen to others stories of the deportations at Kuditamisse Paev remembrances. A lively person but every year, she does the same thing. She is silent and in her own world, quiet until I drive her home, and then I watch her go through the psychological process of being triggered and remembering again what she went through. She has survived, but there is still something deep in there, an innocence lost.
So...what I'm trying to say is....oh...I don't know what I'm trying to say anymore......
Only with a heart of stone could someone read your little story and not laugh.
Which is kinda sad, because out of the woodwork come the same old critics laughing and displaying their very worst forms of public behaviour possible. It really makes me wonder what on earth these people are up to, and why they get upset with others who want to enliven and inject fresh sunshine into an otherwise dour subject-like bridging Estonian feelings beyond the pale and the Atlantic.
Dog fight! Yes. That pretty much sums it up like it is. So let it go Maxim. You too Anonymous or Anonymuses. You look stupid and ugly.
... because she knows how to put her knee to Maxim's testicles. It looks good on him. He has never taken a shot that he hasn't begged for.
I'd like to see Riina Kindlam do an interview with Maxim, complete with photos, so that we might understand him better. It would be nice to know his motivations and whether or not he is ashamed of his conduct here.
How about it Maxim?
How about it Maxim?
How do you know Riina isn't Maxim?
Riina is coherent, logical, intelligent, literate and a darned good, patriotic Estonian woman!
I dragged as many of my Canadian friends as possible to see 'The Singing Revolution'. For them, this was a revelation and, afterwards, they said that I have much to be proud of as an Estonian. I agree wholeheartedly.
Not all of us feel that way. We all know people who grew up in Estonian households and, as adults, abandoned everything Estonian in their background. That's OK, I suppose. In a free society, we're allowed to pursue our happiness in whatever direction we think we'll find it.
Then, we have a category of one -- Maxim, who had a miserable time among us, now dedicates some of his worthless existence to degrading Estonians both at home and abroad. When compared to Russians, Estonians look bad in Maxim's eyes. Any rebuttal is called Russia bashing.
I'm one of several responders to Maxim and I'll confess that I simply can't stop myself. Reading a Maxim comment is like looking at a snake – it's repulsive, yet it's impossible to avert my gaze. At a more conscious level, I feel that an attack on Estonians is also an attack on me. I'm compelled to defend myself and those dear to me. Maxim calls this character assassination.
I can't simply dismiss him as a freak with an irrational grudge.
Occasionally, a reader equates Maxim with his critics. That hurts and, if I thought that such a sentiment was widespread (i.e., beyond Maxim and Sofia), I'd try to find a way of restraining myself.
Not all of us feel that way. We all know people who grew up in Estonian households and, as adults, abandoned everything Estonian in their background. That's OK, I suppose. In a free society, we're allowed to pursue our happiness in whatever direction we think we'll find it.
Then, we have a category of one -- Maxim, who had a miserable time among us, now dedicates some of his worthless existence to degrading Estonians both at home and abroad. When compared to Russians, Estonians look bad in Maxim's eyes. Any rebuttal is called Russia bashing.
I'm one of several responders to Maxim and I'll confess that I simply can't stop myself. Reading a Maxim comment is like looking at a snake – it's repulsive, yet it's impossible to avert my gaze. At a more conscious level, I feel that an attack on Estonians is also an attack on me. I'm compelled to defend myself and those dear to me. Maxim calls this character assassination.
I can't simply dismiss him as a freak with an irrational grudge.
Occasionally, a reader equates Maxim with his critics. That hurts and, if I thought that such a sentiment was widespread (i.e., beyond Maxim and Sofia), I'd try to find a way of restraining myself.
What's the bet that Sofia and Peeter aren't, in fact, old Maximahv himself?
Look at the style. It's a giveaway.
Look at the style. It's a giveaway.
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