Very well said TM.

And I agree with Toomas too.

Respecting the article's last paragraph it is clear that Mr. Estam has not been following commentaries on this web site: The Estonian anti-euro faction does have a hero and champion - someone bravely crying wolf in the wilderness, none other than Maxim, intrepid mangler of metaphors and sequencer of ruptures.

Yes it must be very distressing when EÜS (and other) profiteers who do business with the EU and Israel could potentially get cut off from their golden goose.
Let us remember the philosophy of the wealthiest family on earth - 'Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.'
Mayer Amschel Rothschild
http://www.godlikeproductions....

So to Merilo et al, please suggest how Eesti should proceed to improve the opportunities for the 137,000 unemployed while keeping some semblance as an independent country in the drowing EU?

Toomas, let's take a simple fact. Estam lives in Estonia and knows a lot more about Estonian politics than you do! I think he is right on the mark. You support the progressive wing of Estonian politics which has shot itself in the foot more than once during the past 10 years. Perhaps it is time for you to rethink your politics instead of shouting on the rooftop telling others how wrong they are. Considering the disturbing financial rollercoaster that has been set in motion, it surprises me that someone of your intelligence advocates the worst-case scenarios imaginable for Estonia. Instead of criticizing the likes of Sarkozy et al who have the audacity to look too positively towards Russia, you attack a man from within your own ranks and tell us his forecasting is a disaster. Thank God you play no significant role in Estonian politics Toomas-at least one bull less in the China shop could save whatever is left of the mess that has been caused in Estonia.

Cutting ourselves adrift is indeed playing directly to into the hands of the Kremlin. They stated this as part of their strategy but a few weeks ago.
TM is obviously well read on this issue too, otherwise he wouldn't have raised earlier points.
And while I most often agree with Max's points, I think he's way off here: his argument based - rather unusually- in patriotism rather than reason.

How can cutting ourselves adrift occur at all? How does a break in continuity nullify what we have achieved and can certainly continue to achieve through the Estonian Kroon? If the Estonian Kroon has during time become "devalued" itself, why can't the critics of the Estonian Kroon define this in terms that convincingly leave no doubt it is time to change currencies because the Kroon is a disaster? The fact is that the Kroon is not a disaster, but the Euro is! If this is not the case, supporters of the Euro should have no problem whatsoever in discrediting our national symbol. I am amazed that my last critic is so easily prepared to even raise the notion of supporting the Kroon as being the last vestige of patriotism and insufficient reason not to show our full support for the Euro. I see too much common sense stemming from the supporters of the Kroon, and too little convincing arguments that aside from the wild presumption that the Euro will bring in bountiful supplies of investment it will swing Estonia out of its current economic malaise. A growing number of leading economists are warning against switching to the Euro, but our hard-headedness is stopping us from seeing reason and freedom (not to mention independence) in making decisions that is in our nations best interests. Ansip's Refornists have never listened to sound economic judgement, and a lot of people seem to have absorbed the same kind of attitude with respect to the Euro.

It makes little difference to me whether Estonia is occupied by the Kremlin or Brussels. Both groups of supporters who want to abolish Estonia's independence and turn the country into a province are traitors in my opinion.

Peter - that's just silly and I doubt that you really mean that.
Max - How can you claim that the Kroon has been a success? It's been pegged to either the DM or Euro for the past 15 years. If you have a link that can show that it's been a success despite it's being pegged then please post them here.
I still have to agree with TM. The road, alone, is dangerous. We are strong, but we are small. With the Euro we achieve greater security whether it swings up or down. Adopting it will not affect our competitiveness but will make commerce and investment easier. The Kroon is pretty, and it is a symbol of independence, but I'm not convinced that those are reason enough to sacrifice long term security.

Certainly I agree that part of the Kroon's success has been the fact that it has been pegged to the value of the Euro. However, apart from that it has been achieving its success only because of the fact that wages in Estonia are ridiculously low in comparison to the rest of Europe, and secondly, because Estonia's geographical location has and always will be an attractive place to invest regardless of the currency in use. If the Euro proves to successfully push Estonia's economy ahead, then what will be the cost of that advancement? We know that to date the Government has done a superb job of completely shutting down any stimulus in the private sector to increase production both locally and for export. In fact the opposite has occurred; it is far better to claim bankruptcy in Estonia which enables one to come off with fewer scars than hoping for government support to assist you through the hard times. Government fiscal policy has been brilliant, but how has it been achieved? By simply progressively cutting off Govt financial supply to state institutions which has dramatically increased unemployment and caused the average wage earner in Estonia to have to settle with at least a quarter earnings less annually compared with two years ago. Also, the Trade Union movement in Estonia is practically non-existent, throwing pressure back onto wage earners to have to bargain and eventually settle for far less pay than the equivalent wages earned elsewhere in Europe. The majority of Estonians predict a significant decline in the standard of living after the introduction of the Euro in 2011 and without any grassroots bargaining power to halt further wage minimization in the future, the only thing that will change after the introduction of the Euro in Estonia will be the incomprehensibility of coming to terms with living in Estonia when the gulf between wages and cost of living will be in absolute disproportion to each other, reflected only in the continuing brain drain of the young and talented in search of greener pastures.

I appreciate the reply Max, but I still don't see the facts or numbers in your argument. It'll go either way despite whether we adopt it or not. If Europe is headed for disaster, we're going down anyway with or without it. But with it, we have a better chance of attracting local foreign investment and commerce.
More importantly - TM has it right on this. The Euro is our greatest defence against a Russian economic offensive.

I'm not with you on the Russian economic defensive. I consider that to be the most naive välis.Eesti notion which finds absolutely no support here in Estonia where the threads of bi-lateral interests are seen from a completely different perspective. The apex of politico-economic trouble stems from the broader willingness of Europe to do business with Russia-a support that has by now surpassed all reasonable and sound measures to turn back from a win-win scenario for Russia. Decisions about what kind of currency will prevail on this Continent are childsplay compared with the backroom decisions which are being made today between Russia and the EU, which will enhance Russia's future and strengthen her hand in every competitive sphere determining our future as a European continent.

Maxim, remeber the meds. Take them. Honestly.

Toomas-many readers remember that from 2006 onwards, you were one of the leading cheerleaders in praise of everything that was going on in the Estonian economy, and yet in spite of warnings that it was all going to come down in a heap of rubbish, leaving our economy in tatters, yet still you are here mouthing off about how wonderful things are and how easily we will clean up our financial mess simply with the change of currency. I think that your light-headedness and shallow calculations indicate that really you are very naive regarding economics. And suggesting I take medication as the answer to our woes indicates that you really are not fit to offer any better solutions. I continue to side with the Conservative wing of politics in Estonia, but that is certainly not the fraudulent wing that you aspire as being all-knowing and forward moving. The Ansip-Lang clown factor is about to eject itself finally from the stage, because Mart and Martin Helme-Indrek Neivelt-Ivar Raig-Maxim factor will soon be the voice of reason in Estonian politics!

"The Kroon is pretty, and it is a symbol of independence, but I'm not convinced that those are reason enough to sacrifice long term security."

Obviously you don't live in Eesti.
To think that long term security can be guaranteed by going to the euro shows a naievete that can only be achieved with excessive use of legal and illegal meds.

Germany and Russia will do as they please, (as Germany is Russia’s most important trading partner) ...
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de...
... and Eesti will only once again be collateral damage whether they have the euro or the kroon.

as of 6/29/10 ..estonian survey says ... (thanks Maxim) ...
http://majandus.delfi.ee/news/...

You're referring to a poll as conclusive evidence that the Euro won't work?! I'll bet you think that Savisaar is Estonia's saviour too!

Estonians have never been given an open choice in the question of joining the EU, much less so in the case of whether we wish to change our currency. Whether we accept the fact that soon the Church will be forced to accept the role of marrying gay couples is still up for grabs. But I'm certain that discrimination will help solve that problem.

i'm not peeter btw. i'm new commenter.

You say that estonians were not given an open choice to join the EU? But they were.

The estonians I speak to, have spoken about the big referendum which was held in Estonia, years ago...to join or not join the EU. My esto friends tell me it was quite the thing....that there were a lot of things estonians knew were going to change, yet most Estonians at the time, were for the change. (despite their current worries perhaps.)

How can you say that they were not given an open choice when they were?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

At the time of May 2004, I clearly remember Siim Kallas threatening Estonians with the news that if they decided not to join the EU it would ultimately mean a future Russian invasion of Estonia. The fact that political tactics have changed significantly-now most of Europe does not view Russia as a threat but as a genuine partner-Estonia of course realizes it would be foolish to argue to the contrary, since Nordstream, Visa-free travel for Russian citizens and the common goal of eliminating terrorist threats-all call for much close co-operation with Russia. The Estonian press has gone very soft on Russia, and issues to do with messrs Lang, Hanson and Herman Simm have highlighted the fact that Russian influence in Estonia is not on the wane, it is on the rise. KAPO's annual brochure continues to recognize Russia as having too much influence in peripheral matters, and no doubt the issue of Palestinian statehood as well as nuclear power safety will draw the EU into even close ties with Russia who is wholeheartedly in support of a Palestinian state, as is Estonia. Whether illegal child abduction and the steady rise of narcotic sales and addiction-dependent victims throughout Europe can be eliminated seems to me to be a top priority and a test that the EU has failed in dismally.

Maxim....the referendum was held in September 2003 in which Estonians voted on the referendum. You stated that Estonians were threatened by Siim Kallas in 2004 to join.

Something is not jiving with your statement there.

I would like to see a good argument for this. I am not convinced that there should be such a broad difference of opinion on this subject. Hopefully Toomas will put his best argument forward and blow us all out of the water with something completely unexpected and a solution to all our woes. Your turn Toomas.

Toomas, you've mentioned just about every other unknown place on the face of the globe but somehow forgot to mention Estonia. What exactly is your point regarding the lesson about the Euro and the problem of Estam's logic? You also fail to see how so many other things are inter-related to the Kroon, instead criticizing me for bringing in issues which don't bear relation to the subject. All this convinces me that you really don't have a genuine grasp on Estonian politics, otherwise you would discuss Estonia and not something that happened in faraway England. Stick to the subject please.

Toomas, are you or are you not able to show us a convincing rebuttal of what exactly it is that you object to in Estam's article? So far you have avoided this question like the plague. Estam is no fool and his interviews and op eds in Estonia have always attracted public interest. I can understand it if there was something inherently misguided in Estam's thinking, but so far I see no rebuttal from you or others who question his approach. Why is this so?

Maxim wrote: [i][S]o far I see no rebuttal from you or others who question [Estam’s] approach. Why is this so?[i]
The answer, Maxim, is that you simply have not read the comments. Alternatively, you simply don’t comprehend basic English.

Toomas, thank you for your response. Yes, I have read through your comments, and I do understand English. However, Estam's original article is dense with historical facts about which your only response is that it is depressing, or that the risk associated with the Euro is, in the final analysis, worth it. Neither of those comments sufficiently rebuts the very careful historical diagnosis which Estam presents at the outset. Indeed-one must realize that the reality is like this; we are going to end up with the Euro whether we like it or not. However, let it further be said, that in one or two years time I anticipate my predictions (many of which I have outlined here and which you would certainly mark as depressive) to come true. Already we see marks of serious social explosion happening in Estonia; one fifth of the population lives well below the critical line of poverty, for example, and there is no political faction anywher on the horizon who is genuinely interested either in promoting the efforts of NGO's or encouraging private sector support for the poor. The bald answer to all these and any other problems, as you have repeatedly stated, seems to lie in the magic wand called the Euro. Your past positive stance regarding many issues of Estonian life has come to pass, leaving us to pick up the shattered economic pieces which have shelled us today everywhere as punishingly as March 9th firewalled the streets of Tallinn. Let us hope that next time we are not so blind as to follow advise advise that initially sounds like milk and honey but ends up being quite something else.

If you tried to undo Switzerland's of Lichtenstein's independence on the same grounds as has been done in Estonia, I think you would find these nations would not capitulate as easily as Estonia has done. However, instead of seeing Estonia as capitulating, the nation has been hoaxed into believing it is making changes for its own good. Independent countries should not give up their independence for reasons that are all too sensible, reflecting a strong sense of integrity rather than subjection to the lowest common denominator.

Maxim wrote:

[i]If you tried to undo Switzerland's [or] Lichtenstein's independence on the same grounds as has been done in Estonia, I think you would find these nations would not capitulate as easily as Estonia has done.[i]

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with us Maxim.

And by the way, Liechtenstein has a population of less than 36,000 and a land area of ~160 sq. kilometres (Eesti has 45,000 sq km). It also has no military.

As for independence? Well, it has the Swiss fulfill its diplomatic functions. And guess what Maxim. Its currency is the Swiss Franc.

Glad to see that you are still sharp as a tack and on top of things as usual.

I have no objection to switching currencies-nowhere have I stated that I stand against any change if it is change for which we are prepared and for the which the majority of the population shows its support. I have simply preferred a wait-and-see approach due to the volatility of of the Euro. If there was a choice of switching to the Swiss franc, I would have been the first the support that change, because as we all well know, the Franc as well as the people it serves deserve each other. Both reflect a quality and stability of life that are deserving of respect. I think most people can see the sense in wanting greater stability for this nation, not less as is going to be the way for us in 2011.

The British have decided not to join the Euro. Why not? If they haven't, why can't Estonia also refuse?

Yet quite simple. The UK has one of the world's largest economies. Estonia has one of the smallest. Therefore the British Pound should theoretically be very stable. The Kroon, left to our own devices, could become unstable rather quickly if left to fend for itself in the volatile marketplace and could be easily affected by large, not-so-benevolent neighbours.
Read Merlio's comments. He knows what he's talking about. He really does.

this really is a fringe website. If it's not zany home movies from Costa Rica, it's wacky conspiracy theories.
Could someone with an ounce of professionalism please, please, please do something?

You unhappy when your views are challanged and you have no answers?
Or you think it best that Ilves visit to Israel not be publicized?

Absolutely on the mark Peter. I'm amazed that our Estonian friends have completely-and is some people's case deliberately-overlooked the fact that it is that thing called sisu! that intangible quality that has given us an economic edge to survive this crisis and held the kroon as a national flagship for all of Europe to behold. If our currency's critics were spatting their theories in decades gone by, they would have been considered traitors to our nation. Today they are upheld as heroes. I hold in esteem every Estonian citizen who has been the victim of such cruel political machinations by our so-called leading politicians these past few years, at whose expense and ransom our national goodwill has been downtrodden. One thing is to be a nation free to speak and think as we like, but it is quite another thing for a government to reflect the will and respond in the complete interests of her people. In this case Estonia has a very long way to go.

It was suggested that the poll be used as the basis upon which to base strategy regarding adopting the Euro. It's not my opinion but proven fact that populism makes for very bad policy.
Also, I would not define TM's comments as mere opinion but careful analysis by someone in "the know."

If TM is in "the know", why does it need to be put in inverted commas? It should be obvious to everyone. However, it isn't obvious either to me nor his other critics. The most accurate comment is from someone regarding TM's admiration for Kissinger and Brzezinski. Perhaps there is an explanation as to why these men (apart from being very influential and freem....s to boot) should not have our support as well.

So majority public opinion should really be viewed as populist opinion? Interesting.

Eestlased are lucky to have people like that who are smarter than the locals to lead us, be they coming from Moscow, Brussels or Toronto.
All communists at heart!