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VanemadUuemad
A lot of truth here. Especially this sentence:
"It is interesting to note that the 4 Orgs have not recognized the disharmony they have created in our small Estonian diaspora in Toronto."
My thoughts exactly and this makes me sad. I wonder if the "Madisonites" realize just how divisive their actions are. There would seem to be two possibilites:
1)
They understand perfectly and are arrogant enough to steamroll ahead with what they have decided is best without addressing the legitimate questions many people have.
2)
They don't understand.
Either way, their actions have created a rift in our community and it's a serious one that has many people up in arms. If only the haughtiness could to be replaced by openness, that would be a huge step towards healing this rift. Without that, the legacy of this steamrolling will not be a proud one no matter what ends up happening.
"It is interesting to note that the 4 Orgs have not recognized the disharmony they have created in our small Estonian diaspora in Toronto."
My thoughts exactly and this makes me sad. I wonder if the "Madisonites" realize just how divisive their actions are. There would seem to be two possibilites:
1)
They understand perfectly and are arrogant enough to steamroll ahead with what they have decided is best without addressing the legitimate questions many people have.
2)
They don't understand.
Either way, their actions have created a rift in our community and it's a serious one that has many people up in arms. If only the haughtiness could to be replaced by openness, that would be a huge step towards healing this rift. Without that, the legacy of this steamrolling will not be a proud one no matter what ends up happening.
Couldn't you also view it that the division in the community has been created by those who are reluctant to embrace a new future? It all depends on your perspective.
In either case, better to focus on the way forward rather than decide whose fault it is that things are where they are. It's been a long road and oodles of people and organizations over decades are responsible for the fact that things are how they are.
In either case, better to focus on the way forward rather than decide whose fault it is that things are where they are. It's been a long road and oodles of people and organizations over decades are responsible for the fact that things are how they are.
I am really concerned that this expensive and complicated building over a subway system is not going to happen -- that the plan does not not seem to be well thought out and it will run out of $.
The community does not feel like they are included in the process. PR bulletins do not equal a dialogue.
I am also concerned that a substantial number of people in the community were an afterthought to the plan -- having a drop off location at Madison is not a well thought out solution to commuters and seniors not wanting to come into the city core. This issue should have been determined before going full steam ahead with these plans.
I don't see how the Madison option "can be fixed" to make it work. I see band-aid solutions.
At the moment, I can't get excited about Madison. Without having a buy-in to this plan, I don't see how I can get behind this in a significant financial way... the community will be asked to donate in support of this building, and I don't feel it belongs to the community.
I just feel sadness and loss of what could have been -- a community inclusive approach.
The community does not feel like they are included in the process. PR bulletins do not equal a dialogue.
I am also concerned that a substantial number of people in the community were an afterthought to the plan -- having a drop off location at Madison is not a well thought out solution to commuters and seniors not wanting to come into the city core. This issue should have been determined before going full steam ahead with these plans.
I don't see how the Madison option "can be fixed" to make it work. I see band-aid solutions.
At the moment, I can't get excited about Madison. Without having a buy-in to this plan, I don't see how I can get behind this in a significant financial way... the community will be asked to donate in support of this building, and I don't feel it belongs to the community.
I just feel sadness and loss of what could have been -- a community inclusive approach.
When the future is unknown, requires tearing down the past and those driving the steamroller aren't answering legitimate questions which people have, how can one be anything but "reluctant"? Experts have questioned the narrative that the Esto house is on the verge of collapsing, full of asbestos etc., in fact they have said that these things are simply not true. Well if they're not true, then it would seem that the community has been misled if not outright lied to. And if they are true, why not give answers to these questions? These are serious issues!
This has nothing to do with "the way things are", it has to do with where we're headed and yes, we would be wise to focus on that and that's exactly what many of us are trying to do. So tell us, how are we to "focus" on what's being hidden from us?
This has nothing to do with "the way things are", it has to do with where we're headed and yes, we would be wise to focus on that and that's exactly what many of us are trying to do. So tell us, how are we to "focus" on what's being hidden from us?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (06:50)
I was at the community town hall and I found the arguments presented about repair costs and space usability issues in EM convincing. I did not think anything was being hidden from me or that there were competing (secret) agendas.
But then, I have no sentimental attachment to the current EM so I just looked at the facts.
But then, I have no sentimental attachment to the current EM so I just looked at the facts.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Devils advocate (11:23)
I was at all the meetings, and have been following all the news articles, but remain completely unconvinced that the EM is beyond restoration but somehow the similar age Dalai Lama's Madison house (built to residential standards only) is worth rebuilding and superior to what we have already.
There has been no plan expressed to us that demonstrates that we could even fund half of the building of the new 'Estonian Centre'.
So maybe, sale of the EM could fund the restoration of Dalai Lama's house, but given how quickly funds are being gobbled up by consultants already, we will never see the likes of the facility and public parkette over the subway.
There has been no plan expressed to us that demonstrates that we could even fund half of the building of the new 'Estonian Centre'.
So maybe, sale of the EM could fund the restoration of Dalai Lama's house, but given how quickly funds are being gobbled up by consultants already, we will never see the likes of the facility and public parkette over the subway.
Incredible, the angst our community is feeling. Incredible, all the conspiracy theories that are out there. We Estonians are an intelligent lot. Let's let those undertaking the due diligence complete that exercise. Put the conspiracy theories aside and await the facts.
Waiting for facts is exactly what people are doing. It would be nice if instead of being labelled "conspiracy theorists" their questions were answered instead. Is that asking too much?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (06:50), lugeja to Devil's advocate (12:04)
How long do we wait? Until the shovels hit the ground at Madison in Fall 2018, as apparently was announced at the Annex residents meeting held recently at Tartu College?
An appropriate analysis - which is what due diligence is - takes time. Let's let this happen and then be made aware of the outcome. I would be worried if a decision was made on a less-than-complete and hasty analysis. Again, let's wait.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: An observer ... (17:34)
You're missing (or ignoring) the point. The decision to sell the Esto House has been made already and that's what's being questioned - some reputable experts have told us in no uncertain terms that the building is in excellent shape so people are wondering why we were we told it wasn't?
If this question would be satisfactorily answered, I believe that the disharmony would disappear.
Waiting ... waiting ... waiting ...
If this question would be satisfactorily answered, I believe that the disharmony would disappear.
Waiting ... waiting ... waiting ...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (06:50), lugeja to Devil's advocate (12:04), lugeja (05:32)
3Orgs lubasid alguses Due Diligence lõpetada novembri lõpuks, nüüd on see aeg nihkunud varakevadeks. Mul ei ole eriti usku, et see kevadeks valmis saab.
Ma arvan, et nad ei saanud vastuseid mida nad tahtsid ja nüüd on vaja aega, et uusi vastuseid saada, sellised mis on meelepärasemad. Nende ego ja uhkus ei luba tunnistada, et madisoni project ei tööta, eriti kui nii palju raha on juba sinna sisse pandud.
Ma arvan, et nad ei saanud vastuseid mida nad tahtsid ja nüüd on vaja aega, et uusi vastuseid saada, sellised mis on meelepärasemad. Nende ego ja uhkus ei luba tunnistada, et madisoni project ei tööta, eriti kui nii palju raha on juba sinna sisse pandud.
These days I attend more events at Tartu College than at the Esto House, but I confess that I wouldn't like to be driving the kids to Estonian School at TC on weekday nights.
Recently I visited the large Lithuanian complex, with lots of parking, on Stavebank in Mississauga, and happened to ask if the Lithuanian School is there. No, they rent space from the Board of Education in Toronto!
Recently I visited the large Lithuanian complex, with lots of parking, on Stavebank in Mississauga, and happened to ask if the Lithuanian School is there. No, they rent space from the Board of Education in Toronto!
What would happen if the Bank sold the Madison house for $3 million, Sihtkapital sold 3 houses for $3 million, Vana Andres kicked in a couple of million and ran the Church from 958 Broadview, and some childless couples who own houses in downtown Toronto bequeathed their estates to the Esto House? Could the original Schoolhouse portion be replaced with a 6 story office and community structure?
And, why don't people who are not shareholders pay for parking?
And, why don't people who are not shareholders pay for parking?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Curious (15:25)
Yes, yes, yes!
I want a community intact, even if the building isn't as grand as the beautiful Kongats building. But it can be spectacular, if we dared to dream.
I do not feel a sense of community with how the Madison project is being handled. We should not be leaving members of the community behind.
I want a community intact, even if the building isn't as grand as the beautiful Kongats building. But it can be spectacular, if we dared to dream.
I do not feel a sense of community with how the Madison project is being handled. We should not be leaving members of the community behind.
Üks nendest majadest pole Sihtkapitali oma, mis tähendab et nende oma on ainult kaks. Küsige Hessi, Põldre, Tauli jne käest.
If non-shareholders had to pay for parking, they'd look for street parking.
A better solution would be to install pay-toilets in the washrooms and ask Meiusi to put his money where his mouth is.
A better solution would be to install pay-toilets in the washrooms and ask Meiusi to put his money where his mouth is.
Re: Pay-parking
The Esto House is not a charity, although most shareholders initially bought in with charitable intent to enable Estonians to have a community center.
The parking lot requires constant maintenance like snow-shoveling.
To make end meet the halls get rented to non-Estonians. Why shouldn't they pay a dollar to park to help with the upkeep? Street parking and TTC are options, but maybe some Esto non-shareholders won't begrudge such a fundraising tactic.
Tartu College at one point let you buy a parking card ($60.00?), and if you returned it, you got your money back.
The Esto House is not a charity, although most shareholders initially bought in with charitable intent to enable Estonians to have a community center.
The parking lot requires constant maintenance like snow-shoveling.
To make end meet the halls get rented to non-Estonians. Why shouldn't they pay a dollar to park to help with the upkeep? Street parking and TTC are options, but maybe some Esto non-shareholders won't begrudge such a fundraising tactic.
Tartu College at one point let you buy a parking card ($60.00?), and if you returned it, you got your money back.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Curious (15:25), Curious (15:37), Curious (08:22), Curious (08:26), Curious (08:27)
Why am I under the impression that the financially strapped Esto House Board, which was trying to save the Esto House, got bamboozled by the Bank and Sihtkapital into supporting the Madison project when those organizations suddenly withdrew their financial support of the Esto House?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Curious (15:25), Curious (15:37)
Why did the experts, who recently declared the existing Estonian House salvageable, never present any plans in print on how to go about it?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Curious (15:25), Curious (15:37), Curious (08:22)
Why did the experts, who recently declared the existing Estonian House salvageable, never present any plans in print on how to go about it?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Curious (15:25), Curious (15:37), Curious (08:22), Curious (08:26)
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