Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
I've never liked the idea of moving to Madison, it just never felt right from the start. Seems like a suitable location for young/trendy/yuppie types but for the community as a whole, not suitable at all. That's without even getting into the practical issues but what can you do, the young people seem to be determined to have their "kirss tordil". Unfortunately, it seems like this plan will go forward so what can I say, I hope it works out somehow. I fear though that the people enthusiastically shoving this grandiose vision down our throats today may look back on this years down the road and think ... oops.
Dear Lugeja,
No, it does not 'feel right' because the vision for this new Estonian 'Centre' is quite different now.
It is a cosmopolitan entity showcasing Estonian Culture: “A vision of glory.”
Do we really have enough money for this downtown location to do this right?
Unless the majority of our Community wants to revisit adding the residential component with amenities to the current EM site (where we all want to be happy and safe together) we will watch our activities be farmed out to our other assets in the city. Too many members have remained voiceless for too long. When the concrete is poured, then it’s really over.
Footnote: Design practitioners of ‘feng shui’ would never place an important building next to, looking at or on top of rushing trains. (= money rushing away)
No, it does not 'feel right' because the vision for this new Estonian 'Centre' is quite different now.
It is a cosmopolitan entity showcasing Estonian Culture: “A vision of glory.”
Do we really have enough money for this downtown location to do this right?
Unless the majority of our Community wants to revisit adding the residential component with amenities to the current EM site (where we all want to be happy and safe together) we will watch our activities be farmed out to our other assets in the city. Too many members have remained voiceless for too long. When the concrete is poured, then it’s really over.
Footnote: Design practitioners of ‘feng shui’ would never place an important building next to, looking at or on top of rushing trains. (= money rushing away)
It is easy to talk and demand. The "young" have never paid for anything and now they are still proposing to use the moneys worked for by the "olds". How will they finance it when the "olds" moneys have been wasted? How much are you willing to donate or pay? Think about it ! You are smart! The project will never happen!
I wrote this previously - thus for some this is a duplicate
Just found the actual original Estonian House share document in my files. It made me cry. My father purchased one share for my two brothers and myself. For him this was making sure we were part of the Estonian Community.
If the board has its way...my share will no longer exist. Going to Madison means finding a way to eliminate my family's shares (all shares) we share holders OWN the Estonian House. The board is there to take care of OUR asset.
The board needs to keep the share structure when they purchase the land at Madison for tax reasons. Once completed, then they will make our shares go away... thus they are not only selling the Estonian House, they are robbing anyone who purchased a share of their rights.
I wonder with the bank having shares that were valued at 50.00 each how do they take that loss... or do they? The bank is funding the move... in terms of lending the Estonian House funds for the due diligence. So is there a side deal to ensure the Estonian Bank - our community bank - somehow gets the funds out of the proceeds? I cannot imagine a BANK being OK with losing the shares that were valued at $50.00. What am I missing here. I lose my shares... and the bank is OK with the loss of their shares? Not very responsible behavior for a financial entity if you ask me
Just found the actual original Estonian House share document in my files. It made me cry. My father purchased one share for my two brothers and myself. For him this was making sure we were part of the Estonian Community.
If the board has its way...my share will no longer exist. Going to Madison means finding a way to eliminate my family's shares (all shares) we share holders OWN the Estonian House. The board is there to take care of OUR asset.
The board needs to keep the share structure when they purchase the land at Madison for tax reasons. Once completed, then they will make our shares go away... thus they are not only selling the Estonian House, they are robbing anyone who purchased a share of their rights.
I wonder with the bank having shares that were valued at 50.00 each how do they take that loss... or do they? The bank is funding the move... in terms of lending the Estonian House funds for the due diligence. So is there a side deal to ensure the Estonian Bank - our community bank - somehow gets the funds out of the proceeds? I cannot imagine a BANK being OK with losing the shares that were valued at $50.00. What am I missing here. I lose my shares... and the bank is OK with the loss of their shares? Not very responsible behavior for a financial entity if you ask me
'New generation, new building'? Having followed this thing for a while I'm almost as bewildered by it as I am by Merkel's immigration policy. Whereas I'm way more convinced of the sincerity of intentions on both sides in the Eesti Maja - Estonian Center saga. So this is not about throwing stones. This is a cry for calm and some Occam's Razor (the simplest explanation is likely the most correct) rationality. Too late? Maybe.
See selleks: watched the January 31 Community Information Session? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Raises as many questions as it answers. I.e. I'm not sure how the multi-purpose-simultaneous-event-superbly-subdividable Suur Saal is going to work. Gala events and weddings on a maple floor with basketball court markings and retractable backboards? How exactly does that mega carpet attach/ detach? Or, so much for the youth sporting events angle (save rahvaste pall, like at Peetri kiriku basement)? Whereas I do recommend Veiko Parming's introductory words. Only a cretin would doubt his depth, decency and commitment. Give it a listen. He makes his point(s). And yet. And yet Guido Laikvee's contentions are not going to magically disappear. This is all about epic trade-offs. Irreconcilable differences. What about d'parking? What about it? Tarvo Toomes's cautionary words too: 'Eesti Maja külastajatest on praegu umbes pooled, kes sinna tulevad oma alaealiste lastega neid viies kas lasteaeda, Eesti Täienduskooli, skautlike noorte tegevusest osavôtma, rahvatantsu tantsima ja kooris laulma. Kôigil on enamikus vaja kasutada sealset parkimisplatsi. Madisoni projekti puhul kaob see mugavus ära, mis vôib tegevustest osavôttu vähendada. Kas meie noorem generatsioon, lastevanemad, on sellele môelnud?' All of this needs to be honestly addressed, not brushed aside by anyone's smiling mediator. Is not T. Toomes a wise man? Of course he is. I repeat: this is bewildering. It really take some kind of love to render all of Guido's points moot, doesn't it? On the 'pro-Madison' side, Carl Jung might call this a case of (not anima, nor animus, but) 'image' possession? The sexappealish new building, weightless and divine, feels like the change we all need? Right? That a changing-dying-morphing (take your pick) community needs. To survive for at least 2 more generations. But is it?
I mean, I love it. But there's a voice that keeps descending. Interrupting. Echoing. What's it saying? Sometimes faintly, barely audibly, sometimes 'järsku', loudly: cost overruns, cost overruns... (o boy, only the future will show who was right). Haven't we all noticed yet? What's lacking in this debate is a vision of a viable alternative to Madison. And maybe there's a good reason there's none there. And so be it. The bets are off. Madison wins. Come what may. For better or worse. But right now, at best, we're comparing a ruffled at the edges, yet dignified, grandmother to a savvy young dish. 'Sensible'? Is that fair? Let's be honest, what's missing is a visualization of an appealing, radical redo of the existing EM. One that doesn't cost $1,5 million, but is somewhere at the halfway mark, say $10-15 million. One that might just create some 'image possession' of it's own (in the eye of the beholder). Some brazen wrecking ball work, some deft reconstruction?
See selleks: watched the January 31 Community Information Session? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Raises as many questions as it answers. I.e. I'm not sure how the multi-purpose-simultaneous-event-superbly-subdividable Suur Saal is going to work. Gala events and weddings on a maple floor with basketball court markings and retractable backboards? How exactly does that mega carpet attach/ detach? Or, so much for the youth sporting events angle (save rahvaste pall, like at Peetri kiriku basement)? Whereas I do recommend Veiko Parming's introductory words. Only a cretin would doubt his depth, decency and commitment. Give it a listen. He makes his point(s). And yet. And yet Guido Laikvee's contentions are not going to magically disappear. This is all about epic trade-offs. Irreconcilable differences. What about d'parking? What about it? Tarvo Toomes's cautionary words too: 'Eesti Maja külastajatest on praegu umbes pooled, kes sinna tulevad oma alaealiste lastega neid viies kas lasteaeda, Eesti Täienduskooli, skautlike noorte tegevusest osavôtma, rahvatantsu tantsima ja kooris laulma. Kôigil on enamikus vaja kasutada sealset parkimisplatsi. Madisoni projekti puhul kaob see mugavus ära, mis vôib tegevustest osavôttu vähendada. Kas meie noorem generatsioon, lastevanemad, on sellele môelnud?' All of this needs to be honestly addressed, not brushed aside by anyone's smiling mediator. Is not T. Toomes a wise man? Of course he is. I repeat: this is bewildering. It really take some kind of love to render all of Guido's points moot, doesn't it? On the 'pro-Madison' side, Carl Jung might call this a case of (not anima, nor animus, but) 'image' possession? The sexappealish new building, weightless and divine, feels like the change we all need? Right? That a changing-dying-morphing (take your pick) community needs. To survive for at least 2 more generations. But is it?
I mean, I love it. But there's a voice that keeps descending. Interrupting. Echoing. What's it saying? Sometimes faintly, barely audibly, sometimes 'järsku', loudly: cost overruns, cost overruns... (o boy, only the future will show who was right). Haven't we all noticed yet? What's lacking in this debate is a vision of a viable alternative to Madison. And maybe there's a good reason there's none there. And so be it. The bets are off. Madison wins. Come what may. For better or worse. But right now, at best, we're comparing a ruffled at the edges, yet dignified, grandmother to a savvy young dish. 'Sensible'? Is that fair? Let's be honest, what's missing is a visualization of an appealing, radical redo of the existing EM. One that doesn't cost $1,5 million, but is somewhere at the halfway mark, say $10-15 million. One that might just create some 'image possession' of it's own (in the eye of the beholder). Some brazen wrecking ball work, some deft reconstruction?
Hey Rita, I love you and your twin sisters (am I hallucinating, was there one or two? Kokku 3. I remember the cleated running shoes. 'Stringbean' et al) - and who didn't- way back from Jõekääru. And when we juhuslikult met briefly in Tallinn at the last laulupidu, when you remarked 'it's family'. Exactly. Community. What every global citizen desperately needs, and we had it in spades as väliseestlased. So much for awkward introductions. Can you clarify your commentary? I see two sides. There's this acknowledgement that things change, we should be open to future possibilities, and there's this feng shui caution: let's not rush towards something which is potentially 'kahetsusväärne'. Wasn't your father the engineer to the great (endine Saarlane) Louis Kahn? Who actually gave the idea for the timeless/ forever Salk Institute Plaza? I'm talking here of one of the greatest spaces ever conceived in modernity? No exaggeration. Spill the beans, older (architect, yeah I think you are) sister of d'stringbean(s)!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: philosophically speaking (10:17)
Lembit, please come and save our community by rebuilding a home at Broadview Avenue. You are so talented with the naturalness of your designs -- nature inspired, warmth, family, home.
Madison is a beautiful pinching glass slipper worn once to the ball by Cinderella.
Our community will be torn in half by the Madison build. It will not be a home to the "salt of the earth" in our community. They will never feel at home there. They do not attend Tartu College functions and they will not attend Madison ones either. We will be cutting our community in half. They will rent space elsewhere.
There is money for an Estonian House rebuild -- if the 4orgs are presently targeting 25 well-to-do Estonians for Madison, then they must be targeting millions. They just refuse to collect that money for an eco-friendly rebuild with an addition of a couple of storeys. Cost overruns at Madison are a given, and may sabotage the grandiose plans over two sets of subway tracks, leaving us with nothing much in the end.
I can squeeze out $10,000 toward a Broadview rebuild. If lowly me can do it, then others can too. It's for the community by the community -- a spirit that Madison does not have.
Madison is a beautiful pinching glass slipper worn once to the ball by Cinderella.
Our community will be torn in half by the Madison build. It will not be a home to the "salt of the earth" in our community. They will never feel at home there. They do not attend Tartu College functions and they will not attend Madison ones either. We will be cutting our community in half. They will rent space elsewhere.
There is money for an Estonian House rebuild -- if the 4orgs are presently targeting 25 well-to-do Estonians for Madison, then they must be targeting millions. They just refuse to collect that money for an eco-friendly rebuild with an addition of a couple of storeys. Cost overruns at Madison are a given, and may sabotage the grandiose plans over two sets of subway tracks, leaving us with nothing much in the end.
I can squeeze out $10,000 toward a Broadview rebuild. If lowly me can do it, then others can too. It's for the community by the community -- a spirit that Madison does not have.
Dear 'Rohutirts', Patience. Isn't that what our tribe is good at and what architect doesn't like to try their chops on a complicated design problem- neh? Some spatial components are missing in the Madison parti. Having witnessed how Semite developers operate, more is better. Yes, Kahn 'gave' Bangladesh their Democracy. Thanks for the memories.rkomendant@studiok.ca
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Rita Komendant (10:22)
Hei Rita, who is 'rohutirts'? Some reference to the young student 'grasshopper' in the series, Kung Fu?
Waking up this morning I realized two things. One: never listen to Hocus Pocus by Focus more than 3 times straight. One risks not being able to get it out of one's mind. Call it 'melody possession'. An addiction. Hopefully temporary.
Two: I seem to have mixed metaphors. Pairs of sisters, that is. There were the Komendants with their racing shoes, and the Hõlpus'es from New York side, with their guitars and necklaces. 'Stringbean' was the younger Hõlpus. I was yet younger (hence a rohutirts?) and a tad 'image possessed' by all of the above. And not the only one.
Btw, I'm not hankering to work on this EM redo project, already for the reason that I don't have a Canadian license to practice, and as a heritage building the Broadview project is it's own kettle of fish.
My recommendation for the Madison project is to try to inject some structural wood, a la Canadian architect Michael Green. Not to mention wood structures are light and may solve some of the bearing problems. Of course there are such extreme expanses (bridging) it will likely require a steel-wood hybrid solution. As for 'warmth' and appropriate symbolism, isn't Eesti an awful lot about wood?
Äh, I just gave away one of my wild cards and my portion of the due diligence bonanza for someone else to run with, to garner whatever glory lies ahead. Not to mention a much-needed expansion of one's emploi: architectural vocabulary. A small thank you is all I ask. Well, I never considered myself much of a businessman, and slaving - not freedom - only begins at 55 here in Estonia. In this profession. It's 7:03 and in closing, my work day begins. Ilusat!
Waking up this morning I realized two things. One: never listen to Hocus Pocus by Focus more than 3 times straight. One risks not being able to get it out of one's mind. Call it 'melody possession'. An addiction. Hopefully temporary.
Two: I seem to have mixed metaphors. Pairs of sisters, that is. There were the Komendants with their racing shoes, and the Hõlpus'es from New York side, with their guitars and necklaces. 'Stringbean' was the younger Hõlpus. I was yet younger (hence a rohutirts?) and a tad 'image possessed' by all of the above. And not the only one.
Btw, I'm not hankering to work on this EM redo project, already for the reason that I don't have a Canadian license to practice, and as a heritage building the Broadview project is it's own kettle of fish.
My recommendation for the Madison project is to try to inject some structural wood, a la Canadian architect Michael Green. Not to mention wood structures are light and may solve some of the bearing problems. Of course there are such extreme expanses (bridging) it will likely require a steel-wood hybrid solution. As for 'warmth' and appropriate symbolism, isn't Eesti an awful lot about wood?
Äh, I just gave away one of my wild cards and my portion of the due diligence bonanza for someone else to run with, to garner whatever glory lies ahead. Not to mention a much-needed expansion of one's emploi: architectural vocabulary. A small thank you is all I ask. Well, I never considered myself much of a businessman, and slaving - not freedom - only begins at 55 here in Estonia. In this profession. It's 7:03 and in closing, my work day begins. Ilusat!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: philosophically speaking (10:17), Lembit Tork (10:58)
Hei LT for E.H. rebuild.
I've heard some iseloomustused of the Madison project, from 'trophy space' to now your 'beautiful pinching glass slipper worn once to the ball by Cinderella'.
I think these are appropriate observations/ criticisms for architect A. Kongats to address. He's a fine architect. If he can't do a good job of it, I'm not sure who can.
Amongst other glaringly as-of-yet-open-ended concerns, he's just got to give some more warmth and detail to the thing.
I recommend the use of structural timber if at all possible. This addition to the palette could make it a tour de force, and would begin to fill in what's missing to many. But would it be enough? Alchemy yet to be invented, it won't conjure up more space, will it?
But maybe it's not necessary. Ask Veiko Parming.
Locating above a rushing space, like a rushing stream(?), i.e. what about the feng shui, is another question all together.
Please see my comment re my non-participation to Rita Komendant somewhere (above/ below?) in this thread.
I nonetheless dearly appreciate your acknowledgement and otsene üleskutse to me, as can anyone really say your worries and wishes are unjustified? Heading into an unknown future, this is one of the defining moments for the Estonian community in Toronto. It's a tough one all right.
Parimate soovidega, to all!
I've heard some iseloomustused of the Madison project, from 'trophy space' to now your 'beautiful pinching glass slipper worn once to the ball by Cinderella'.
I think these are appropriate observations/ criticisms for architect A. Kongats to address. He's a fine architect. If he can't do a good job of it, I'm not sure who can.
Amongst other glaringly as-of-yet-open-ended concerns, he's just got to give some more warmth and detail to the thing.
I recommend the use of structural timber if at all possible. This addition to the palette could make it a tour de force, and would begin to fill in what's missing to many. But would it be enough? Alchemy yet to be invented, it won't conjure up more space, will it?
But maybe it's not necessary. Ask Veiko Parming.
Locating above a rushing space, like a rushing stream(?), i.e. what about the feng shui, is another question all together.
Please see my comment re my non-participation to Rita Komendant somewhere (above/ below?) in this thread.
I nonetheless dearly appreciate your acknowledgement and otsene üleskutse to me, as can anyone really say your worries and wishes are unjustified? Heading into an unknown future, this is one of the defining moments for the Estonian community in Toronto. It's a tough one all right.
Parimate soovidega, to all!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: philosophically speaking (10:17), Lembit Tork (10:58), Lembit Tork (22:07)
Appreciate your comments, Lembit. It would be a lot to ask of you, and it would be putting you in the thick of things.
Just curious, how complicated would it be and how much time might it take to get reinstated as an architect in Canada?
Just curious, how complicated would it be and how much time might it take to get reinstated as an architect in Canada?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: In the hood (07:54), hood (08:02), Hood (08:54)
While I saw hr Laikve in attendance at last week's meeting, I am not sure that he and I heard the same things being said. I am not sure on what basis he has arrived at the above conclusions (e.g., rentals, covering expenses), as these issues were covered off in the presentation.
The issue of rental space is super important... Creating spaces that people would like to rent. Poor layout, too big, too small... lack of parking… are all are issues.
The Estonian House is used by Estonians and Non Estonians. The issue is to keep it full all the time. That way they can "keep" the place running and have funds to maintain it properly.
Rent every space. But do no undercut the rental rates.
Now years ago the Estonian house was booked and full with dances, concerts, receptions. We all remember that all 3 halls were full. Well one Friday night... much to my delight I saw the same thing happen. Salsa dance and the place was packed. Since we use the spaces less (the Estonian House Board does not arrange events like they used to) They need to rent out every inch to enable our community to continue to enjoy the Estonian House.
We can afford our current location. We have parking, we have a view of the don valley… that others envy us for.
So. When running a business, which the Estonian House is… one has to think of “location, location, location” This is a prime spot, parking views, transit. Safe community.
The Estonian House is used by Estonians and Non Estonians. The issue is to keep it full all the time. That way they can "keep" the place running and have funds to maintain it properly.
Rent every space. But do no undercut the rental rates.
Now years ago the Estonian house was booked and full with dances, concerts, receptions. We all remember that all 3 halls were full. Well one Friday night... much to my delight I saw the same thing happen. Salsa dance and the place was packed. Since we use the spaces less (the Estonian House Board does not arrange events like they used to) They need to rent out every inch to enable our community to continue to enjoy the Estonian House.
We can afford our current location. We have parking, we have a view of the don valley… that others envy us for.
So. When running a business, which the Estonian House is… one has to think of “location, location, location” This is a prime spot, parking views, transit. Safe community.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ingrid Tanner (08:58), Ingrid Tanner (17:32)
According to an article in EWR, the Estonian House board and confederate orgs are talking to 25 wealthy Estonians, which should put a dent into the 10 M total.
Other community members can be invited to donate substantial sums within their means too, as they did when it was first built. A real community effort.
Other community members can be invited to donate substantial sums within their means too, as they did when it was first built. A real community effort.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: In the hood (07:54)
The fact remains that the EM board has decided to sell our community's house but there is not enough money to build the new one.
If wealthy people wanted to donate to the new house they would have stepped up by now. We don't need to foot the bill for more consultants to try to squeeze money out of the rich on a project that they know has not a whole lot of community interest, but rather is creating a lot of division. Wealthy people are wealthy because they are great at holding onto their money and accumulating more.
With not enough money to build the new house, we will be in a similar situation to other Toronto ethnic groups. EM board: did you ever go talk to the Greek and Jain communities to ask what mistakes they made in building their new community centres? Let's not repeat their mistakes but learn from them instead!!! The Greeks lost everything on their new centre near Warden and Ellesmere and sold it to the Jains, who have yet to finish construction. This could really be us too. Please reconsider selling the house if we don't have the money to build a new one!!!!
If wealthy people wanted to donate to the new house they would have stepped up by now. We don't need to foot the bill for more consultants to try to squeeze money out of the rich on a project that they know has not a whole lot of community interest, but rather is creating a lot of division. Wealthy people are wealthy because they are great at holding onto their money and accumulating more.
With not enough money to build the new house, we will be in a similar situation to other Toronto ethnic groups. EM board: did you ever go talk to the Greek and Jain communities to ask what mistakes they made in building their new community centres? Let's not repeat their mistakes but learn from them instead!!! The Greeks lost everything on their new centre near Warden and Ellesmere and sold it to the Jains, who have yet to finish construction. This could really be us too. Please reconsider selling the house if we don't have the money to build a new one!!!!
Interesting developments in the Annex neighborhood w Joe Cressy.
The voice of decent echos what is being expressed by Estonians about the unsuitability of the Madison project... In fact, much of the same language is being used. Apparently, developers see outcry as a regular part of doing business and expect they will be successful, willing to weather the outcry until it dies down.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto... 1.4546473
The voice of decent echos what is being expressed by Estonians about the unsuitability of the Madison project... In fact, much of the same language is being used. Apparently, developers see outcry as a regular part of doing business and expect they will be successful, willing to weather the outcry until it dies down.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto... 1.4546473
* dissent, not decent in above comment
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: In the hood (07:54), hood (08:02)
The link you gave isn't working, here's one that seems to be working for now (at least I assume this was the story you were referring to). I heard this being discussed (albeit briefly) on the radio this morning, Cressy said it was as if developers were "giving the middle finger" to the neighbourhood.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (07:55)
Yes, you have the correct article ...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: In the hood (07:54), hood (08:02), Hood (08:54), Hood (08:58), Hood (11:08)
Dear Hood, btw, do you live in the neighbour'hood'? To answer: in my case it would not be a matter of reinstatement as I was never a member of the OAA. 20 years ago I was quite content to be a senior architect in someone else's firm. Had I stayed in Canada I would've likely got my papers, but it was never my intention to become an architect 24/7. Sacrificing life, limb, family and sanity just to compete in a field that paradoxically too many people love. I didn't like this sort of 'atomization' and 'lifestyle specialization' (kudos to those who have survived it, even flourished)! 2 of my professors who ran a joint firm were euphemistically named 'Depression' and 'Anxiety' by their employees. Hmmm... Coming to Eesti I discovered it was much easier to create one's own firm here, even as we're slowly catching up with the red tape. See selleks, there's nothing preventing me from consulting or partnering with an architect in Canada who does have a license. To do whatever. Even now in Eesti, I'm doing my onw thing, as well as being a consultant to firms that need the extra vision and expertise. My 'ego' and 'name' are not as attached to architecture, as it is for many others, as much as I love architecture and have some kind of god-given knack for it. But I 'give away' good ideas every day. (Doesn't matter, I'm more of a closet writer, and thinker, with appropriately unrealistic dreams in these areas. My 12 yr. old son, Kaarel, recently said something brilliant to Kristi, my wife: 'Tead sa emme, issi on selline unistaja'). There's a bittersweet truth there. Now, if some sort of consensus was achieved, and someone was to seriously want to figure out how to redo the existing EM, in a drastic enough way to create the required 'image possession' I've been talking about (for the requisite psychological 'buy in' every project needs to generate sufficient community support, inclusively 'salt of the earth' et al, ), I would consider partnering in some fashion. But, the initiative is presently in the hands of the pro-Madison people, many of whom I know and regard as extremely dedicated persons. With heart. Not self-serving at all, who genuinely have the community's best intentions in mind. Whether they're mesmerized by hopes,
their version of a more realistic future, fooling themselves, or not, is another matter. I mean polarization on this whole shebang was never anyone's intention. Please forgive my honesty and lack of tact, I must've inherited it from my engineer dad. 'Whatchagonna do!?', said the Italian butcher-philosopher, käsi laiutades. Žestikuleerides.
their version of a more realistic future, fooling themselves, or not, is another matter. I mean polarization on this whole shebang was never anyone's intention. Please forgive my honesty and lack of tact, I must've inherited it from my engineer dad. 'Whatchagonna do!?', said the Italian butcher-philosopher, käsi laiutades. Žestikuleerides.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: philosophically speaking (10:17), Lembit Tork (10:58), Lembit Tork (22:07), Lembit Tork (22:50)
The Esto hood, of course!
Thanks for letting us know where you stand and what the options are. Respekt!
Thanks for letting us know where you stand and what the options are. Respekt!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: In the hood (07:54), hood (08:02), Hood (08:54), Hood (08:58)
A ha. Esto hood. Makes sense. And likewise respekt for the inquiry and concern. And a big sigh from here, because I really feel for both sides.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: philosophically speaking (10:17), Lembit Tork (10:58), Lembit Tork (22:07), Lembit Tork (22:50), Lembit Tork (11:02)
Lembit Tork...
The issue here is that we OWN the Estonian House. It really needs upgrades and repairs. For sure. The Pinchin report was not so bad.. up... new heating (lower cost to heat the building) water pipes not so bad but a plan has to be put into place to open up the lower level and bring up the new pipes.. minimal inconvenience if well planned. Finally the roof... which we have a grant to fix it.
Next, marketing... have it full every day.. the top of the Estonian house (presents poorly with old awards and photos.. Clean it up and you have an additional rental space... not sure if guilds and scouts pay for the space... just like there is a math school renting the classrooms, there is daycare onsite, there is the former coffee shop that can be rented out... there are other spaces. We have 3 halls... one need to put in more wheelchair access and then every night all 3 halls could be rented.
once we get the cash flow working... we can plan expansion and take advantage of the spectacular views... there is so much potential due to the location and the parking spaces. - I have no problem with the madison project - build it.. but do NOT sell OUR ESTONIAN HOUSE!
The issue here is that we OWN the Estonian House. It really needs upgrades and repairs. For sure. The Pinchin report was not so bad.. up... new heating (lower cost to heat the building) water pipes not so bad but a plan has to be put into place to open up the lower level and bring up the new pipes.. minimal inconvenience if well planned. Finally the roof... which we have a grant to fix it.
Next, marketing... have it full every day.. the top of the Estonian house (presents poorly with old awards and photos.. Clean it up and you have an additional rental space... not sure if guilds and scouts pay for the space... just like there is a math school renting the classrooms, there is daycare onsite, there is the former coffee shop that can be rented out... there are other spaces. We have 3 halls... one need to put in more wheelchair access and then every night all 3 halls could be rented.
once we get the cash flow working... we can plan expansion and take advantage of the spectacular views... there is so much potential due to the location and the parking spaces. - I have no problem with the madison project - build it.. but do NOT sell OUR ESTONIAN HOUSE!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ingrid Tanner (08:58)
so... let us look at locations... and crime
http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/feat...
Use the link... and see what I saw... chester hill is a lovely pale color (low crime)
and Madison is a deep rich colour (Higher crime)
If you want to move to a new home... which neigbourhood would you choose... now think of your children... and our seniors.
Where would you like them to be socializing.
This is one extra point.. crime is higher at Madison according to cbc map
http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/feat...
Use the link... and see what I saw... chester hill is a lovely pale color (low crime)
and Madison is a deep rich colour (Higher crime)
If you want to move to a new home... which neigbourhood would you choose... now think of your children... and our seniors.
Where would you like them to be socializing.
This is one extra point.. crime is higher at Madison according to cbc map
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ingrid Tanner (08:58), Ingrid Tanner (17:32), Ingrid Tanner to observer (17:55)
There is no comparison between Broadview Estonian House site and proposed Madison Ave. Community Centre site. Broadview Estonian House site wins on all points.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Guido Laikve (08:52)
The building complex existing at 958 Broadview is irredeemably unfit for any sort of sustainable community use. We do not have funds to sustain it as-is, nor do we have funds to tear it all down and build something new on that site.
Personally, I think that it is one of the ugliest and least functional buildings on the planet (Tartu College is not far behind)- inside and out. I understand there are people with alternative views. Some of them are much smarter than me and many wear the blue black and white as personal branding material.
I wish I could be so self-assured, so confident, so right! My hats off to you, Guido! Juu , Jaak Jarve and that crazy lady are all that keep our community from the gates of hell!
Elagu Toronto Eesti Yiskond!
Personally, I think that it is one of the ugliest and least functional buildings on the planet (Tartu College is not far behind)- inside and out. I understand there are people with alternative views. Some of them are much smarter than me and many wear the blue black and white as personal branding material.
I wish I could be so self-assured, so confident, so right! My hats off to you, Guido! Juu , Jaak Jarve and that crazy lady are all that keep our community from the gates of hell!
Elagu Toronto Eesti Yiskond!
The building complex at 958 Broadview is certainly NOT “irredeemably unfit” for sustainable community use. Totally 100% opposite! 958 is BEYOND the PERFECT SITE and location in ALL meaningful, sustainable ways! It’s incredible that Toronto eestlased actually have THAT SPECIFIC site with alll its natural amenities! (It is the parking lot behind Tartu, that is unsuitable in every single way for eestlased -at least for those eestlased who want an elav seltskondlik, oma- kodus, mugav, privaatne ja safe olek. If you want to present eestlus in showcase form, then Madison street is for you. (How long are you gonna stand there behind those glass walls,...and who exactly is looking at you...?)
As for 958 being an ugly building? —- , it wasn’t ugly in it’s heydey, was it? It was new and revamped by our parents’ generation in the best that they could do! It had open arms toward one and all! The building can, of course and for Heaven’s sake!, be redesigned, and use of space reconfigured. EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can be done and redone on that specific site better than anywhere else!
We all get old, worn out, outdated, wrinkly, grey, crippled and finally ….ugly—even us.! 958 has spirit, substance and heart... but it’s getting old and tired, needs a little ‘tugi’, support, care, help, attention, love just like an aging parent. "Paluksin veid abi...?". I am not ready to kick the EM, much less this awesome 958 SITE, to the curb and pretend that a small, glass shadowbox showcase beside the ‘VÄLIS -Eestlaste Archives’, (no less) ,in the shade, on some inaccessible downtown side street next to Chinatown is now ‘beautiful’.
To me, THAT would be “one of the ugliest and least functional buildings on the planet - inside and out”. (...getting külmavärinad just thinking about it.)
A Mausoleum next to the Archives? Toronto eestlaste Hauakivi?
As for Financials, there should be a cash-call to EM shareholders.(100$ per share for approx 6,000 shareholders for one year= $600,000.00 dollars.!! ) Investing that there will be enough money for ANY renewal, reconstruction,repair. Should have been requested a while back already…..(Can’t take credit for that idea… someone else’ )
Time to grow up, help out, fix up, ’take ownership’ of the Eesti Maja problems. I am not on the Madison parade toward glory and won’t be duped into thinking that it is magnificent to sell 958. nor am I even close to believing that it's the best we can do.
I resent the distasteful "jõu" tactics used so far….Häbi, in that department..
Rõõmsaid 100 a Vabariigi Aastapäeva pühitsemisi! Palju Onne väike, ilus, uhke Eestimaa ja Rahvas!
As for 958 being an ugly building? —- , it wasn’t ugly in it’s heydey, was it? It was new and revamped by our parents’ generation in the best that they could do! It had open arms toward one and all! The building can, of course and for Heaven’s sake!, be redesigned, and use of space reconfigured. EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can be done and redone on that specific site better than anywhere else!
We all get old, worn out, outdated, wrinkly, grey, crippled and finally ….ugly—even us.! 958 has spirit, substance and heart... but it’s getting old and tired, needs a little ‘tugi’, support, care, help, attention, love just like an aging parent. "Paluksin veid abi...?". I am not ready to kick the EM, much less this awesome 958 SITE, to the curb and pretend that a small, glass shadowbox showcase beside the ‘VÄLIS -Eestlaste Archives’, (no less) ,in the shade, on some inaccessible downtown side street next to Chinatown is now ‘beautiful’.
To me, THAT would be “one of the ugliest and least functional buildings on the planet - inside and out”. (...getting külmavärinad just thinking about it.)
A Mausoleum next to the Archives? Toronto eestlaste Hauakivi?
As for Financials, there should be a cash-call to EM shareholders.(100$ per share for approx 6,000 shareholders for one year= $600,000.00 dollars.!! ) Investing that there will be enough money for ANY renewal, reconstruction,repair. Should have been requested a while back already…..(Can’t take credit for that idea… someone else’ )
Time to grow up, help out, fix up, ’take ownership’ of the Eesti Maja problems. I am not on the Madison parade toward glory and won’t be duped into thinking that it is magnificent to sell 958. nor am I even close to believing that it's the best we can do.
I resent the distasteful "jõu" tactics used so far….Häbi, in that department..
Rõõmsaid 100 a Vabariigi Aastapäeva pühitsemisi! Palju Onne väike, ilus, uhke Eestimaa ja Rahvas!
Chinatown is south of College, fyi.
Moominmamma (Finnish: Muumimamma, Swedish: Muminmamman) – the mother of Moomintroll. She very rarely gets cross and takes even the most distressing circumstances (such as the arrival of a comet, or being washed away by a flood) in her stride. Moominmamma would permit anything to her child and his friends, even smoking in the comics (she says it's good for the stomach). Moominmamma is almost never without her handbag, which contains essentials like woolly socks, tummy powder, and bark. She makes bark boats every summer, and the first one goes to her favorite.
Moominmamma: please take this distressing of circumstances in stride. Don't get cross. Use your wisdom to realize the wisdom of Kadri's words and intention. She may have well meant "inaccessible sides street north of Chinatown". Though this is semantics really and focusing on this detail misses the valid points she is making.
Moominmamma: please take this distressing of circumstances in stride. Don't get cross. Use your wisdom to realize the wisdom of Kadri's words and intention. She may have well meant "inaccessible sides street north of Chinatown". Though this is semantics really and focusing on this detail misses the valid points she is making.
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