Guido, nõustun sinuga täielikult. Eesti maja on maha müüdud. Kui kirik ka läheb võõrastesse kätesse, siis on eestlus Torontos kaotanud oma viimase ankru. Teised asutused on ju kõik eri gruppide huvides ega esinda meie tervet ühiskonda nagu Peetri kirik.
On imelik jälgids kuidas on korraga tekkinud grupp erihuvilisi kes püüavad kõigest väest hävitada üld-eestluse tugesid Torontos.
Lembit Maimets.

This is a great idea, however, what is the mandate of the church? Does running /selling apts fall under what the church can legally do?

I agree wholeheartedly with Lembit, especially with his last comment about the demise of Estonian existence in Toronto.

I can't recall, was there this sort of commentary when Vana Andres location was sold?

to Vancouver...

Why isn't this the same issue as Vana Andres?

Oh please. Nothing is being destroyed. Eestus in Toronto is on the rise with the new Keskus. Its funny how all these doomsday predictions are the same folks who for decades have done nothing but complain from the sidelines.

to ar:

It was owned by both Esto & Latvian congregations and sold in 2014(?)

So how is selling in 2014 any different than looking at the possibility of selling?

please have a look at what the church looks like now

https://www.larkinarchitect.co...

In time, this Keskus project will prove to be the key reason historically for the demise of the Toronto Estonian Community. In repeated announcements, this Keskus project boasts of preserving the Estonian community for another 50 years. This is a pipe dream.The truth of the matter is that the only benefit this Keskus project has, is to relocate the new-named Northern Birch Credit Union out of a current residential area to a downtown business main artery of Toronto, so as to provide a higher visibility for the credit union and in doing so, it will solidify it's own sustainability plans. As for the Toronto Estonian Community future, the well has been poisoned and it's everyone for themselves. The Estonian House is gone and soon so will all of the Estonian churches. Hey let's pretend it's 1948 all over again.

Again with the doomsday hysterics. It’s getting old sõber…

Guido's suggestion is excellent and feasible. PK can be saved, if everyone on the board really has the will , even without the apartment addition. A multi-faceted , FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE approach would go a long way. Recently, the PK board has not adopted responsible fiscal management of our precious community asset. Some basic changes to how PK is run would improve , a financial outlook which has been "exaggerated" to promote selling PK and moving to Madison , as Salumae openly suggested at the 2020 AGM. Step 1, would be hiring a new minister, who does not command almost $70,000 /year, for doing much less than previous ministers (and not just during the pandemic). In fact, according to the financials the pastor was given a raise during the pandemic when the doors of the church have been shut. During Salumae's overly long stay at PK, the Naisring disbanded, there is no longer an English congregation or English services, no more choir and ZERO OUTREACH. Not to mention how many congregation members do NOT want him to officiate at funerals etc. ,and use other pastors. ( In fact, church members have even moved to other congregations.) $70 K , plus all kinds of expenses and free rent, for an employee/minister like this, is hardly good value. Possibly, a different minister could be "shared" by more than one congregation, greatly reducing yearly expenses.
As for the cross , in the columbarium, it does not NEED to be replaced. The PK board does not seem to recognize " needs vs. wants" , and if you are unable to do that , you cannot be fiscally responsible.
As Guido mentioned, the church should be the heart of the community, and the esto community needs space for events and groups, as does the Yonge -Eglinton community at large, so rental income potential IS there. However, Salumae wants the church to be strictly that - just a church. As far as the congregation is concerned, Salumae , as an employee, really has no say whatsoever and should keep his views to himself.
Of course , the NOT well-publicized recent Covid 19 outbreak at PK during the 5-hour long service/luncheon /AGM ,involving visitors from Estonia, was not only socially irresponsible for putting vulnerable and other community members at risk but , financially irresponsible . Who conducts a 5-hour long EXPENSIVE event like this during the 4th wave of a pandemic ? The PK board should be held accountable, and if I was accountable for this , I would resign. In fact, term limits for board members would be another step forward.
The esto community in Toronto has been torn apart by the sale of Estonian House. Let's pull together and not allow the same thing to happen to PK.

It seems that "the New World Order" has no sense of "preserving or enriching these links to our past". True, it is that the Estonians are not a very religious people. So eventually, the churches will disappear. It is quite apparent that the silent majority amongst our Estonian community prefer to be silent, apathetic and simply witness to the disintegration of a once thriving community. The loss of the Estonian House, was like a stake through the heart of our community. Next in line to disappear, will be the larger footprints like Jõekääru, and Kotkajärve. Interestingly enough, Seedrioru seems to have a greater longevity potential due to strong leadership. And so the play continues....
Elagu vaba Eesti!

Have a read from EE regarding the expenses.

https://eestielu.com/et/arvamu...

to AR & Vancouver Vana Andres was JOINTLY owned by the Latvians & Estonians. There too was expenses in order to maintain the structure that could not be paid for with a declining congregation. Hence the selloff.

How is this any different from Peetri Kirik and its outlook?

It is the older generation’s arrogance and contempt for any change that the present generation has struggled against for years. Times however are changing and folks will have to decide for themselves their level of involvement. I however have no worry about the continued vibrance and energy of our Esto community.

ar: Still waiting for a response regarding the difference of the 2014 sale of Vana Andres vs a possible divestiture of Peetri kirik?

why have all the previous comments been deleted?