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“Friends” just like “friends” of Eesti Maja - basically same group - seem intent on dividing without any understanding of facts or situation our community faces and without any realistic, achievable plans.
"Friends" of Eesti Maja and "Friends" of SP. Each as toxic and unwelcomed as the other. Hoping they fade away soon.
It sounds like some people are now crying because they did not get their way. It is time to act like adults. We have already lost the Estonian House and can not afford to lose our church as well if our community is to survive. If th executive have lost interest, they should be commended for their past work and resign as promised, rather than taking the church with them. It is time for new leadership that will take our church forward into the future.
Cry harder!
The Estonian House was a much greater symbol of the unity and vitality of the Toronto Estonian community than any church. Any child can see that the Estonian community ship is sinking, but heroically the band played on.
I totally agree with you about the importance of th Estonian House but sadly, it is gone. This makes it even more important to save the church since our community needs a place to meet and hold various events, something that the Keskus is not suited for because of it's location which is difficult to access. It doesn't matter if you are religious or not. The founders of St. Peter's envisioned it as both a church and community center.
Parking seems to be a concern for many who oppose KESKUS. There is no parking at the church. How is the church easier to access than KESKUS? It is certainly not on 2 subway lines.
Parking, traffic jams and a large homeless population of people with drug, alcohol and mental health issues are problems in the area around the Keskus. While St. Peter's does not have a large parking lot, the one at the school has been used by the congregation and there is usually no problem finding a place to park on the street. Finding a place to park at Tartu College can be a challenge, especially with all the one way streets in that area. The Annex area was built in a time when horses, not cars, were used for transportation.
Wow! Here we go again! Oh boy, there's a lot to unpack... Not only is this opinion piece a complete distortion of the facts and of the events that day, now the "Friends" (see their website for exactly who they are) have descended to a new low: character assassination!!! A lot of it seems to be approaching if not crossing the red line: libel!
Oh well, that will for sure sort itself out eventually.
Let's face it, out of whatever the number of members there are, only around 25 stood for election and out of that 22 were elected to be in the Advisory Committee. In the past the Committee’s size was 40 but no-one else bothered to join. Out of the 22, only 7 offered to join the board and 6 were chosen by a vote. The 6 that were chosen are the same who have been serving the congregation for over 8 years already and have a strong reputation among the truly active members of working hard and doing everything they can to save the church. Throughout that time they have been working to the best of their abilities to inform the congregation of the impending financial situation. They have sent out letters, Christmas cards with enclosed donation slips, presented the financials at general meetings and calling for volunteers to come forward to help with brainstorming. If their efforts were not enough nobody stepped up to the plate to help improve the situation. All this time the "Friends" have not bothered to show up!!! And they still don't bother to show up. (They claim to be a big group but their website shows an embarrassingly small number! The big number they claim is only petition signers, not verified members.)
The board members and a few of the Advisory Committee along with the occasional congregation members attend church sporadically. Where are the "Friends" on Sunday when they could really show their loyalty, support, and concern for the survival of the church?
Now the "Friends" are, by the content of their articles, admitting that their efforts are producing no results. So their tactic is to try to ruin the board's reputation.
But what is the result of that going to be? Nobody wants to takeover the board's job. Donations will continue to drop. Savings will continue to be drained. The church's maintenance costs will continue to skyrocket. And church attendance will slowly approach zero.
C'mon "Friends"! Let’s be constructive for a change. Show us your plan! The congregation desperately need one now otherwise the church will simply fold.
Oh well, that will for sure sort itself out eventually.
Let's face it, out of whatever the number of members there are, only around 25 stood for election and out of that 22 were elected to be in the Advisory Committee. In the past the Committee’s size was 40 but no-one else bothered to join. Out of the 22, only 7 offered to join the board and 6 were chosen by a vote. The 6 that were chosen are the same who have been serving the congregation for over 8 years already and have a strong reputation among the truly active members of working hard and doing everything they can to save the church. Throughout that time they have been working to the best of their abilities to inform the congregation of the impending financial situation. They have sent out letters, Christmas cards with enclosed donation slips, presented the financials at general meetings and calling for volunteers to come forward to help with brainstorming. If their efforts were not enough nobody stepped up to the plate to help improve the situation. All this time the "Friends" have not bothered to show up!!! And they still don't bother to show up. (They claim to be a big group but their website shows an embarrassingly small number! The big number they claim is only petition signers, not verified members.)
The board members and a few of the Advisory Committee along with the occasional congregation members attend church sporadically. Where are the "Friends" on Sunday when they could really show their loyalty, support, and concern for the survival of the church?
Now the "Friends" are, by the content of their articles, admitting that their efforts are producing no results. So their tactic is to try to ruin the board's reputation.
But what is the result of that going to be? Nobody wants to takeover the board's job. Donations will continue to drop. Savings will continue to be drained. The church's maintenance costs will continue to skyrocket. And church attendance will slowly approach zero.
C'mon "Friends"! Let’s be constructive for a change. Show us your plan! The congregation desperately need one now otherwise the church will simply fold.
There is no need for Friends to ruin the board's reputation. They seem to be doing a fine job of it themselves, even if only half the article is true.
Have the “Friends” informed the 844 petition signatories of the congregation’s finances? Of course they haven’t! Because any rational person with grade 3 arithmetic would have understood that if R(reserves) + R(revenue) - E(expenses) approaches 0 in 3-5 years, and all practical options to increase R have been explored, the “support” for the “Friends” would be decimated.
BTW, if you want to “save the church” (building), it’s for sale - buy it!
BTW, if you want to “save the church” (building), it’s for sale - buy it!
👍 What a novel idea! If you want to save the church, buy it!!! 😂
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: alfosp (03:13)
Then the congregation can rent the building from the new owners, and everyone’s happy.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: A friendly challenge (03:13)
Dear “Friends”,
I notice that your group has decreased from 7 to 6. Please tell us what happened.
I notice that your group has decreased from 7 to 6. Please tell us what happened.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: A friendly challenge (03:13), Solution (03:31)
It's been 4 days and still no-one has posted a single constructive proposal about how to solve the St. Peter's financial crisis!!! Someone asked: "Why are these 'Friends' complaining?" ... Answer: Well they're the Complainers! Somebody has to be the complainer so let the Complainers do the complaining! 😂😂😂😂😂
The Old Testament God, is a consequential god. There is no free lunch, nor ignorance of sin or error. You pay the price for mistakes, but if you heed them and adapt, you shall find that ‘God is Good.’
"Friends" spend their time and want us by their decree to spend our resources, “telling” us all how things ought to be, in defiance of economic reality and the gravity of truth. This form of decree is not only inaccurate (sinful), but downright wasteful. But they don’t care — they’re not the ones footing the bill. The Congregation is!!!
In the New Testament however, there was no heeding, as the Lord's temple was about doing business and making money, until it wasn't. At St.Peter's, the employee minister has set the price to sell the Lord's temple, not knowing that 'God is Good'.
Why the vicious comments against a group that was formed to try to save the church when the juhatus was trying to disqualify members from voting? This is the issue. What's wrong with trying to save the church - which is not rundown, but in good condition! Sad commentary on the Estonian community - they should be united in preserving an icon of Estonian heritage. Putin's lovin' it!!
"By applying criteria which had no basis in our constitution this executive arbitrarily reduced the voting membership list down to 134 members from a membership roster which the auditors established as 1466 and the pastor himself had reported as 1466. Over a thousand members were not invited to that meeting, all were misled about who had the right to vote, and some who came to cast their vote were improperly refused a ballot."
"By applying criteria which had no basis in our constitution this executive arbitrarily reduced the voting membership list down to 134 members from a membership roster which the auditors established as 1466 and the pastor himself had reported as 1466. Over a thousand members were not invited to that meeting, all were misled about who had the right to vote, and some who came to cast their vote were improperly refused a ballot."
Don't be vicious... Save the church! Buy it now!!!
Why would Friends buy something that they already own? All they have to do is to get enough votes to get rid of the current board.
If anyone is being vicious it’s the “Friends”.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: A friendly challenge (03:13), Solution (03:31), A friendly challenge (08:00)
Why lump the Friends of St Peters with Friends of Eesti Maja? Why disparage people, calling them toxic, when they are trying to save the church? Really don’t get it!
And if truth be told, the New Eesti Maja would already be built, if we had an open and transparent vote on building designs, like Lembit Tork’s vision. I guess being honest and open is toxic to some people:-)
And if truth be told, the New Eesti Maja would already be built, if we had an open and transparent vote on building designs, like Lembit Tork’s vision. I guess being honest and open is toxic to some people:-)
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Simple Congregation Member (10:55)
Why lump the Friends of St Peters with Friends of Eesti Maja? Why disparage people, calling them toxic, when they are trying to save the church? Really don’t get it!
And if truth be told, the New Eesti Maja would already be built, if we had an open and transparent vote on building designs, like Lembit Tork’s vision. I guess being honest and open is toxic to some people:-)
And if truth be told, the New Eesti Maja would already be built, if we had an open and transparent vote on building designs, like Lembit Tork’s vision. I guess being honest and open is toxic to some people:-)
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Simple Congregation Member (10:55), Simple Congregation Member (12:33)
The 'Friends' of both orgs are great at coming up with grandiose ideas. Then they wait for someone else to act on them. They themselves have not ever, nor will ever lift a finger to do anything meaningful.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Vana Tark (07:24)
Same people, same M.O. If it walks like a duck….
The Eesti Maja sõbrad cared enough to care for the EM- planting, getting a grant for a new roof, making the interior cheerier, having bake sales etc. When you alienate a group of caring people, you won’t have many friends donating or attending events at the Madison place- when it does get off the ground. There is a silent majority watching you! Many people will avoid the Madison place - it’s a very toxic place.
Bake sales?
Toxic Madison?
Are you serious???
Toxic Madison?
Are you serious???
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: A friendly challenge (03:13), Solution (03:31), A friendly challenge (08:00), Friendly challenge (11:18)
Don't be fooled... The "Friends" are not all members of the church!!!
To the few remaining "Friends": Nobody ever erected a statue for a critic...
There is still no realistic, constructive action plan!!!
Hello! Where are you?
There is still no realistic, constructive action plan!!!
Hello! Where are you?
Crickets...
I guess the "Friends" have given up...
I guess the "Friends" have given up...
The facts in this article cannot be denied. The PK board promised , in writing , to resign. It is their duty to do so now. (There is also a constitutional requirement for board members to be replaced.)What kind of a church board would not do what is right in the eyes of the Lord? If they haven't been able to turn the church around why not let others try ?
Naani Holsmer board member since 2009
Leena Liivet board member since 2012
Talvi Maimets board member since 2013
Kairi Taul-H. board member since 2015
A. Viinamae board member since 2017
Juri Laansoo ?
Naani Holsmer board member since 2009
Leena Liivet board member since 2012
Talvi Maimets board member since 2013
Kairi Taul-H. board member since 2015
A. Viinamae board member since 2017
Juri Laansoo ?
No, the 'facts cannot be denied' but you're denying them big time! The PK board promised to resign on condition that the columbarium vote was in favour of not closing it. The vote was instead to close the columbarium and hence the board did not resign. Also you are disingenuous by implying that the board is blocking others from joining and trying save the church!
Come join!
Here's a simple plan the friends are afraid to put forward:
Put your shoulder to the wheel, get yourself elected to the board, and come up with the money needed to save the congregation (or buy the church building!)
But how can you say you have any integrity if you're not ready to lift a finger or put your own shoulder to the wheel and in reality have no real desire to pitch in but only complain?
Come join!
Here's a simple plan the friends are afraid to put forward:
Put your shoulder to the wheel, get yourself elected to the board, and come up with the money needed to save the congregation (or buy the church building!)
But how can you say you have any integrity if you're not ready to lift a finger or put your own shoulder to the wheel and in reality have no real desire to pitch in but only complain?
I noticed that this “Friends’” article has not appeared in the 2 most recent issues of Eesti Elu. Is that because it wasn’t submitted or because Eesti Elu refused to print it?
Please enlighten us.
Please enlighten us.
The friends might have given up but the congregation, the council, and the board haven't!!!
Onward Christian Soldiers... 💒
Onward Christian Soldiers... 💒
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