Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Wait so your argument is that an ad is more important then a constitution? Seems that your group is trying to smear and insult your way into power.
This is why many people do not want to take part in this organization.
This is why many people do not want to take part in this organization.
16
36To 13 Angry people.
it's not an argument about an "ad", it's about direct instructions to the voters, a majority of whom have no clue as to what the constitution says. if you feel that some group is trying to "smear and insult their way to power" you have no idea of how democracy works and shouldn't have anything to do with EKN anyway.
it's not an argument about an "ad", it's about direct instructions to the voters, a majority of whom have no clue as to what the constitution says. if you feel that some group is trying to "smear and insult their way to power" you have no idea of how democracy works and shouldn't have anything to do with EKN anyway.
36
11The ethics and conduct surrounding the election are the reason why both candidates and voters are mad. The ad is just one of many, many issues.
26
9Democracy without a constitution I see how this group of 13 want to work.
9
32Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: 13 Angry People (10:01), Disagree (10:49)
Once again, no. If you read the article, the proposal states that the errors need to be recognized, followed by a two pronged, democratic approach to correct it and proceed. Unlike some of the commentary here the article addresses the constitution head on. It is not ignoring it at all and neither are the undersigned. Under the circumstances this seems like it's about as honest and open as it can get.
13
2I believe the argument is that the previous EKN directors who conducted a faulty election with incorrect instructions to the electorate are hardly the best guardians of the constitution or EKN's business going forward. If enough of their group had gotten into the top 25 would we even be hearing about the faulty instructions or see an invitation for the next 12 to join them? Why not trust the voters who obviously wanted fresh blood in EKN and choose the leadership from among the 25 they elected according to the rules that were given to them? A blend of new and old seems to be the way to go. Turnover is healthy for any organization.
34
10From what I can gather the 13 on the list were not even contacted to agree to be part of this list and many were not in the top 25. Seems only 8 people would be part of the wedge that divides or the hateful 8.
10
31Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: 13 Angry People (10:01)
EKN directors did not conduct the election...an independant group did
16
8Ladies and gentlemen: that comment is the ugly sound of the old "boys" club desperately trying to keep their grip on power and their trips/perks as they fail to accept that positive change is happening.
We should celebrate and embrace this, not attack it with slander and passive aggressive rage!
We should celebrate and embrace this, not attack it with slander and passive aggressive rage!
34
11I'm glad that this group is proposing that EKN finally follows its own rules, constitution and that they acknowledge that there is a community and voters have voted. I have full confidence that they will begin rebuilding the organization back to what it once was!
It is disappointing that the negative comments here are so vicious and hateful. Hopefully the new EKN will be more inclusive, open and kind.
It is disappointing that the negative comments here are so vicious and hateful. Hopefully the new EKN will be more inclusive, open and kind.
36
7Dear Disagree/13 Angry People and whatever other name you may choose to hide behind.
As Disagree, you wrote on 29 Jan 2016 10:49
"From what I can gather the 13 on the list were not even contacted to agree to be part of this list and many were not in the top 25. Seems only 8 people would be part of the wedge that divides or the hateful 8."
Just so you don't lie awake at night pondering this further, I'll let you in on a secret. I WAS consulted, and I agree with everything in this letter.
As Disagree, you wrote on 29 Jan 2016 10:49
"From what I can gather the 13 on the list were not even contacted to agree to be part of this list and many were not in the top 25. Seems only 8 people would be part of the wedge that divides or the hateful 8."
Just so you don't lie awake at night pondering this further, I'll let you in on a secret. I WAS consulted, and I agree with everything in this letter.
32
10Definitely not all top 25 vote getters nor all 42 candidates were contacted for their views
3
12Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Correction (11:18)
To Mr/Ms Anonymous with the 3 incoherent postings -- perhaps if you could read, you could see that no one is advocating operating without a constitution but rather accepting it with comments about the way the election was run. Interesting also in the reading publics pros and cons!
31
5Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Tõnu Altosaar (10:47)
Thank you for your comments. They are refreshinginly objective given some of the incoherent and angry rants that are posted here in the comments section. It is good to see that the new EKN won't engage in skullduggery and gerrymandering!
31
4As part of the Grateful Slate of members-elect, I look forward to working with like-minded people to reinvigorate EKN as a transparent and accountable organization that represents the interests of our community across the entire country.
I hope that any EKN members posting here have the courage of their convictions to publish their name with their comment. We are all members of a representative organization whose success and effectiveness depends on open and civil debate. Unfortunately, anonymity often goes hand-in-hand with incivility.
If we are to be accountable to those who elected us, I think it is incumbent on us to accept responsibility for our words and deeds.
I hope that any EKN members posting here have the courage of their convictions to publish their name with their comment. We are all members of a representative organization whose success and effectiveness depends on open and civil debate. Unfortunately, anonymity often goes hand-in-hand with incivility.
If we are to be accountable to those who elected us, I think it is incumbent on us to accept responsibility for our words and deeds.
35
2I don't get it. I really don't. Current EKN executive has already announced close to 2 weeks ago that all 37 are in. Announcement is here: http://www.eesti.ca/notice-37-...
So why do the 13 undersigned want to keep slogging this dead horse? What petty politics! Can't take yes for an answer?
So why do the 13 undersigned want to keep slogging this dead horse? What petty politics! Can't take yes for an answer?
7
28That's odd. I thought that most democratic electoral systems relied on independent election commissions to announce voting results (e.g. Elections Canada).
Seeing as the outgoing juhatus, which is supposed to be in caretaker convention mode, has already taken care of business, I guess there's no need for the rest of us to 'kinnita' the election results at the first kooseisu meeting on Sunday.
Could somebody please advise the Valimiste toimkond and meeting chair that items 2 and 3 on the agenda are no longer needed...
Seeing as the outgoing juhatus, which is supposed to be in caretaker convention mode, has already taken care of business, I guess there's no need for the rest of us to 'kinnita' the election results at the first kooseisu meeting on Sunday.
Could somebody please advise the Valimiste toimkond and meeting chair that items 2 and 3 on the agenda are no longer needed...
22
3Ok, lets take a deep breath here and review the facts.
1. Jan 8th, the Valimistoimkond announces preliminary voting results for all 42 candidates
2. Jan 18th, Valimistoimkond announces that according to election results and Põhikiri, 37 members are elected and that election results will be confirmed by the Täiskogu.
3. EKN Juhatus releases a notice, confirming what Valimistoimkond just announced, i.e. that the size of the newly elected council is 37 members (as per Põhikiri)
4. Jan 28th, 13 newly elected members publish a letter, proposing a “compromise” resolution to accept 37 members.
This is why I’m confused, why ask for a “compromise” if there are no diverging views on this?! Everybody agrees that 37 it is (results to be officially confirmed by the Täiskogu). So why the theater? I think everybody can see through the politics here and make their own conclusions.
1. Jan 8th, the Valimistoimkond announces preliminary voting results for all 42 candidates
2. Jan 18th, Valimistoimkond announces that according to election results and Põhikiri, 37 members are elected and that election results will be confirmed by the Täiskogu.
3. EKN Juhatus releases a notice, confirming what Valimistoimkond just announced, i.e. that the size of the newly elected council is 37 members (as per Põhikiri)
4. Jan 28th, 13 newly elected members publish a letter, proposing a “compromise” resolution to accept 37 members.
This is why I’m confused, why ask for a “compromise” if there are no diverging views on this?! Everybody agrees that 37 it is (results to be officially confirmed by the Täiskogu). So why the theater? I think everybody can see through the politics here and make their own conclusions.
7
20Sorry, the time for such negativity is now over. The community will not accept further attempts to manipulate the outcome. By barking out distorted, manufactured facts and telling those who disagree with you to "shut up" will not alter the truth. The community has rejcted your old, negative, ways. Good riddance.
The change that the community has long been waiting for has arrived and we welcome with open arms this new positive, transformative, energy.
The change that the community has long been waiting for has arrived and we welcome with open arms this new positive, transformative, energy.
19
8Nothing confusing here, democracy at work. The group of 13, led by a well known s***disturber, wants to embarrass the current executive and take over.
Yes, all 37 were confirmed to be in 2 weeks ago, but here comes the savior, hallelujah. Disgusting politics.
Yes, all 37 were confirmed to be in 2 weeks ago, but here comes the savior, hallelujah. Disgusting politics.
10
26Voters and candidates were clearly told at the start of the elections that 25 members would be elected.
The "group of 13"'s resolution and proposed compromise honours both the electorate and the constitution. The electorate chose a 25 member assembly. 25 votes and 25 members. Not 37 votes and 37 members which yes, would have been constitutionally correct, however the constitution was not followed in the election call.
Legal advice has recommended that the correct solution to this unfortunate situation would be to call new elections, which would be both costly and time consuming. Legal advice also suggested, that a new election could be avoided through a political compromise.
The political compromise, which the "group of 13" is (still) hoping to achieve is to start tomorrow's meeting with the 25 members elected by the voters, choose the president and executive from and by the 25, then immediately propose a motion to include the other 12 and expand to 37 at the meeting. This compromise proposal has been rejected by the previous juhatus.
The "group of 13" continues to hope that the previous juhatus will reconsider this resolution and allow EKN to move forward in a spirit of co-operation to serve the Estonian Canadian community.
The "group of 13"'s resolution and proposed compromise honours both the electorate and the constitution. The electorate chose a 25 member assembly. 25 votes and 25 members. Not 37 votes and 37 members which yes, would have been constitutionally correct, however the constitution was not followed in the election call.
Legal advice has recommended that the correct solution to this unfortunate situation would be to call new elections, which would be both costly and time consuming. Legal advice also suggested, that a new election could be avoided through a political compromise.
The political compromise, which the "group of 13" is (still) hoping to achieve is to start tomorrow's meeting with the 25 members elected by the voters, choose the president and executive from and by the 25, then immediately propose a motion to include the other 12 and expand to 37 at the meeting. This compromise proposal has been rejected by the previous juhatus.
The "group of 13" continues to hope that the previous juhatus will reconsider this resolution and allow EKN to move forward in a spirit of co-operation to serve the Estonian Canadian community.
23
9I'm sorry but you refer to the current executive. I believe according to the Pôhikiri, "current executive" ceased to exist end of September, 2015 as to making any changes or decisions and is in a caretaker mode.
12
2Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Competence (10:34), Competence (11:18), Competence (11:34)
So the end goal for everybody is to get the 37 in. Great. Everybody is in agreement.
The only difference is that the "G13" wants to first elect the Juhatus from the 25 and then enlarge the Täiskogu to 37, whereas the current Juhatus wants to elect the new Juhatus from duly elected 37.
Clearly the G13 thinks that they can get the necessary votes for acceptable Juhatus from 25, but not from 37. Politics at its worst.
The only difference is that the "G13" wants to first elect the Juhatus from the 25 and then enlarge the Täiskogu to 37, whereas the current Juhatus wants to elect the new Juhatus from duly elected 37.
Clearly the G13 thinks that they can get the necessary votes for acceptable Juhatus from 25, but not from 37. Politics at its worst.
6
18Unfortunately what you don't seem to understand, the 37 were not duly elected according to the instructions to the electors.
16
2Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Competence (10:34), Competence (11:18), Competence (11:34), Tõnu Altosaar (20:01)
You make an argument that the 37 were not properly elected and only 25 should count, yet you want to accept the 37 as a first act of the new Täiskogu. Isn't this cynical and politics at its worst?
No, no we can't accept 37, the voters were misled! Only 25 is acceptable! OK, we have now the new executive, lets accept all 37.
Again, everybody agrees that 37 should be in, why do you want to exclude the 12 from the first vote of Täiskogu, but include them in every subsequent vote? Cynical and politics at its worst.
No, no we can't accept 37, the voters were misled! Only 25 is acceptable! OK, we have now the new executive, lets accept all 37.
Again, everybody agrees that 37 should be in, why do you want to exclude the 12 from the first vote of Täiskogu, but include them in every subsequent vote? Cynical and politics at its worst.
2
16By barking out distorted, manufactured facts
oh my, aren't we getting emotional! Could you please point out which one of the facts I stated is distorted or manufactured?
and telling those who disagree with you to "shut up" . Where have I ever told anybody to "shut up"? Please, get it off your chest, you'll feel better afterwards.
I have no particular love for the current EKN Juhatus, I think they did a poor job with elections, but I'm afraid the cure prescribed by G13 and their glorious leader is way worse than the disease.
oh my, aren't we getting emotional! Could you please point out which one of the facts I stated is distorted or manufactured?
and telling those who disagree with you to "shut up" . Where have I ever told anybody to "shut up"? Please, get it off your chest, you'll feel better afterwards.
I have no particular love for the current EKN Juhatus, I think they did a poor job with elections, but I'm afraid the cure prescribed by G13 and their glorious leader is way worse than the disease.
5
23Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Confused (09:14)
To Correction:
The former EKN juhatus appointed the vote counters who had a family member running in the election. This is not casting aspersions on the vote counters but in what kind of election does a candidate get to have his or her family count the vote? It's called "conflict of interest" and the old EKN juhatus should have known that this is not normal election practice. It's another indication that fresh eyes and minds are needed to steer EKN in a more orderly and accountable direction.
The former EKN juhatus appointed the vote counters who had a family member running in the election. This is not casting aspersions on the vote counters but in what kind of election does a candidate get to have his or her family count the vote? It's called "conflict of interest" and the old EKN juhatus should have known that this is not normal election practice. It's another indication that fresh eyes and minds are needed to steer EKN in a more orderly and accountable direction.
18
2Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Competence (10:34)
It's the other way around. The old juhatus fears it can't get the votes IT needs to continue from the 25 they instructed voters to vote for. So now their fall back position is to include the people the voters basically rejected.
The old juhatus made several mistakes that we now know of:
1) they appointed vote counters with a family member running in the election, contrary to normal election practice.
2) they did not review or catch the error in the instructions sent out with the election materials.
3) when the error brought a group of 25 to the forefront with whom they were not satisfied did the old juhatus try to change the results of the election by leaning on the constitution post facto.
It is puzzling why people cling to what is after all a volunteer position when newcomers are willing to do the work. Especially when those formerly in power have made errors that shake voters' faith in them. Most volunteer organizations are relieved when someone else is willing to step up to the plate, hopefully bringing renewed energy and a fresh approach.
The old juhatus made several mistakes that we now know of:
1) they appointed vote counters with a family member running in the election, contrary to normal election practice.
2) they did not review or catch the error in the instructions sent out with the election materials.
3) when the error brought a group of 25 to the forefront with whom they were not satisfied did the old juhatus try to change the results of the election by leaning on the constitution post facto.
It is puzzling why people cling to what is after all a volunteer position when newcomers are willing to do the work. Especially when those formerly in power have made errors that shake voters' faith in them. Most volunteer organizations are relieved when someone else is willing to step up to the plate, hopefully bringing renewed energy and a fresh approach.
19
7Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Competence (10:34), Competence (11:18)
Tuletab meelde ühte vana anekdooti - Pandi 37 enesesest täis puhatud eestlasi ühte tuppa, ilma mingit konkreetset põhjust ja ... ei mäleta kuidas see loppes, või kas see iialgi lõppeb... issand tule appi
2
8Täis puhatud? Kas see tähendab "well rested"?
10
2Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Competence (10:34), Competence (11:18), Competence (11:34), Tõnu Altosaar (20:01), Tõnu Altosaar (20:06)
If 37 out of 42 are to be chosen, why bother with elections in the first place. What's Another 5 ?
5
9Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.
