Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
The deal with Revera is terminated and a few month later a new buyer is found?! Under Covid conditions? Sounds like an inside job. The big question is $$$, how much did DK pay to rescue our hapless 'community leaders' from total loss of credibility?
most plans and business plans normally have a backup plan (contingency plan) if required. This may seem like an alien concept but that's how things work in business and for most people in daily life.
This is wonderful news. To be moving forward. Kudos to those working on the initiative. I am always puzzled why some suggest that there must he something underhanded?!?
DK ACQUISITIONS INC. Ontario Corp # 2675212 Incorporated: 01/10/2019 Status: ACTIVE Type: ONTARIO BUSINESS CORP.
The DK Acquisitions appears to be a shell company set up for Diamond Corp and Kilmer Group, both well known real estate developers.
DK....David Kalm ?
That would be cool.
That would be cool.
Wonderful news to whom? The under 40s sold out the older generation who paid and enjoyed it, to now sit on a pile of money that came from old soviet war method of divide and conquer. Once you get older and smarter you will realize what you did and karma will come and bite those involved. Money is not the answer to a societies woes when selling out your own and still singing the Estonian Hymn..
Jah, valusad sõnad. Aga keegi peab ka julgema tõde välja ütelda.Paraku vanem põlvkond ju igasugu lehti ja meediat ei loe.Suur tänu aususe eest !
Aga mälestused jäävad seniks kui on mäletajaid.
P.S Kadunud Elmar Tammpõllu unistus on viimaks täitunud.Eesti maja ei ole enam.
Aga mälestused jäävad seniks kui on mäletajaid.
P.S Kadunud Elmar Tammpõllu unistus on viimaks täitunud.Eesti maja ei ole enam.
"Architect E. Tampõld prepared preliminary drawings for an impressive building with a 1,100 seat main hall, but this was replaced with a more modest design by J. (sic) Bach, due to lack of resources….”
https://www.eesti.ca/torontos-...
And who was "rival" Bach? Apparently an admired and respected influencer:
https://ericvery.wordpress.com...
https://www.eesti.ca/postwar-e...
https://www.eesti.ca/toronto-e...
https://www.eesti.ca/torontos-...
And who was "rival" Bach? Apparently an admired and respected influencer:
https://ericvery.wordpress.com...
https://www.eesti.ca/postwar-e...
https://www.eesti.ca/toronto-e...
So just to remind everyone....if the deal with Revera fell through - then that agreement that all the shareholders voted on is now null/void, meaning the 3 Org's and Silverbirch bank do not have authority to sell the Estonian House. This should be legally challenged.
Where are you taking that from?
Glad that there is finally a decision. The East york community centre has been sold! Get real, the ESTONIANS used that old schoolhouse only 9 hours a week and really...when was the last time you rented the Estonian House for your family events? My childhood home was sold too..but my family, my Estonian heritage and the memories will remain. Lets work together on the new project!
All heil the new Spadina&Bloor Community Centre! All Madison hangarounds also welcome!
Before I see the $$$ from DK, I doubt it will be built. After Reverse pulled out, I suspect EH was desperate and sold it for a song. The secrecy surrounding the deal does not instill confidence.
Before I see the $$$ from DK, I doubt it will be built. After Reverse pulled out, I suspect EH was desperate and sold it for a song. The secrecy surrounding the deal does not instill confidence.
Perhaps the Shareholders of Toronto Estonian House should think of starting a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against a hostile Board who has put Shareholders through years of neglect, secrecy and disrespect at meetings with weird Consultations at the beginning which cost hundreds of thousands all told. Secrecy was the key word to then and also is now. It should be time to find out why!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: ar (23:24)
1) the ESTONIANS used that old schoolhouse only 9 hours a week
...nothing is going to change with the new building on Madison ... it will still be 9 hrs a week by Estonians ... because the active community is no more. When was there a new group or activity created in the community pre-Covid? You will be hard pressed to find any. The community is finished. Time for die-hards to pack up and move to Estonia.
2) and really...when was the last time you rented the Estonian House for your family events?
I'm assuming that is a dig at the old House, that it is decrepit, fair enough. But are you going to tell me that more Estonians (= "price conscious") will rent at the new building? The argument in the future will be: "I'd rent at the new building, but the rent is too expensive, I can rent cheaper elsewhere."
...nothing is going to change with the new building on Madison ... it will still be 9 hrs a week by Estonians ... because the active community is no more. When was there a new group or activity created in the community pre-Covid? You will be hard pressed to find any. The community is finished. Time for die-hards to pack up and move to Estonia.
2) and really...when was the last time you rented the Estonian House for your family events?
I'm assuming that is a dig at the old House, that it is decrepit, fair enough. But are you going to tell me that more Estonians (= "price conscious") will rent at the new building? The argument in the future will be: "I'd rent at the new building, but the rent is too expensive, I can rent cheaper elsewhere."
When a deal (or deals) are in progress, confidentiality is a must! If you want to be kept updated with all the nitty gritty I suppose the only way is to volunteer your time and sit on any of those boards. Cudos to those thankless volunteers who have listen to these unsubstantiated allogations. Be kind!
One deal is terminated,another is done,why the secrecy?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: You can't make this up (11:46)
25 aprill 2017 Eesti Maja erakorraline peakoosolek.Kvoorum oli 3276 aktsiat,
resolutsioonide kinnitamisks oli vaja 2/3
poolt aktsijaid mis on 2184 poolt. koosolek andis vaid 2148 poolt. Teistkordset häälte lugemist ei toimunud.
Midagi ei klapi.
resolutsioonide kinnitamisks oli vaja 2/3
poolt aktsijaid mis on 2184 poolt. koosolek andis vaid 2148 poolt. Teistkordset häälte lugemist ei toimunud.
Midagi ei klapi.
Total votes cast 3207
Voting results 2148 yes votes
1059 no votes
Voting results 2148 yes votes
1059 no votes
Shame on the Estonian House Board for not informing the shareholders
immediately of Revera's decision to not purchase the shareholder owned
EH property. As for the Estonian Foundation of Canada you just lost my
financial support. Instead I will support each org directly, then I know
where my donation $$ are going.
immediately of Revera's decision to not purchase the shareholder owned
EH property. As for the Estonian Foundation of Canada you just lost my
financial support. Instead I will support each org directly, then I know
where my donation $$ are going.
There was no shareholder mandate to sell to DK Acquisitions. The existing mandate became null & void when Revera ceased to be the purchaser. Allowing for the immediate closure of the" lasketiir" demonstrates zero regard for the continuity and importance of community and youth activities.
The shareholder mandate was to sell the building. Period. What difference does it make to Estonians who it is sold to? Do we have any particular reverence or love for Revera? None!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: matemaatika ja statistika (14:42)
The fact that this new deal was conducted in darkness and under the cover of COVID is a problem. The timing smacks of desperation. The fact that no terms nor price have been disclosed will promote rampant speculation and further divide the community: all of which has been of little concern to the bank and its partners over the past years.
who cares who buys the property, once it is sold it has no tie to you or anyone who had a previous association. The entire point is to sell it and if a contingency plan is place why does that "smack of desperation"? That only seems to be good business practice which Estonians who escaped from the Soviet occupation supposedly stood for, or am I mistaken?
The Madison project is morally a generational theft from those who funded Eesti Maja, no matter how legalistically done. In the initial vote to sell, individuals against the sale were outvoted thanks to a bloc of votes that had been controversially given to the Estonian Credit Union that in turn did NOT consult its members' wishes on the fate of Eesti Maja. Undoubtedly there is strong overlap between founding public of both institutions, now betrayed by both boards.
Due to space and other practical constraints, the Madison project cannot and will not replace the ongoing activities, events or displays that the Broadview facility has supported. These will be scattered to the four winds, starting with the shooting gallery, suddenly chopped. It was a grandfathered prized rarity as such facilities are no longer allowed in Toronto.
The "meat and potatoes" of Estonian life went on at the rambling home on Broadview that could have been made glorious for less funds than are now being spent for a much more modest facility (e.g. see architect Tork's schematic). The building was clearly allowed to run down in preparation for the Grand Theft.
The justification for Madison as an "International Estonian Center" was always weak as all of Eesti and its multiple facilities are available as one big international center and an offshoot in Toronto can be run in a single room with a computer e.g. in VEMU if it ever gets built.
Another idea mooted that disaffected Estonians will appear out of the woodwork, attracted by a glass box in a downtown location known for drug problems is just silly. For every such theoretic addition, 20 or more Estonians who WERE active will be repelled by the parking and egress onto Bloor Street conundrum. Elderly Estonians, the ones making up the bulk of lecture audiences etc. find the TTC too challenging to use. They will not be driving where parking is a nightmare or costs city rates. Neither will they taxi or Uber as their parsimonious ways are what funded Estonian House in the beginning. Nor are they the only generation affected adversely. More than one young mother has said that she will not be taking her children to school at the new location because of the additional parking inconvenience.
Madison is a bright shiny bauble splitting an already worryingly small community. It is sacrificing what is real and what was working for an abstract notion that not enough people share. This has happened to other ethnic communities like the Greeks with far larger numbers that could afford the schism. If the Madison movers had "listened to the ground"/ kuulanud maad paremini instead of their own hubris, they would have realized the greater good of the greater part of our community would have been better served by a meat and potatoes approach instead of a skimpy smaller dish beautifully plated that does not fill the stomach nor heart.
Due to space and other practical constraints, the Madison project cannot and will not replace the ongoing activities, events or displays that the Broadview facility has supported. These will be scattered to the four winds, starting with the shooting gallery, suddenly chopped. It was a grandfathered prized rarity as such facilities are no longer allowed in Toronto.
The "meat and potatoes" of Estonian life went on at the rambling home on Broadview that could have been made glorious for less funds than are now being spent for a much more modest facility (e.g. see architect Tork's schematic). The building was clearly allowed to run down in preparation for the Grand Theft.
The justification for Madison as an "International Estonian Center" was always weak as all of Eesti and its multiple facilities are available as one big international center and an offshoot in Toronto can be run in a single room with a computer e.g. in VEMU if it ever gets built.
Another idea mooted that disaffected Estonians will appear out of the woodwork, attracted by a glass box in a downtown location known for drug problems is just silly. For every such theoretic addition, 20 or more Estonians who WERE active will be repelled by the parking and egress onto Bloor Street conundrum. Elderly Estonians, the ones making up the bulk of lecture audiences etc. find the TTC too challenging to use. They will not be driving where parking is a nightmare or costs city rates. Neither will they taxi or Uber as their parsimonious ways are what funded Estonian House in the beginning. Nor are they the only generation affected adversely. More than one young mother has said that she will not be taking her children to school at the new location because of the additional parking inconvenience.
Madison is a bright shiny bauble splitting an already worryingly small community. It is sacrificing what is real and what was working for an abstract notion that not enough people share. This has happened to other ethnic communities like the Greeks with far larger numbers that could afford the schism. If the Madison movers had "listened to the ground"/ kuulanud maad paremini instead of their own hubris, they would have realized the greater good of the greater part of our community would have been better served by a meat and potatoes approach instead of a skimpy smaller dish beautifully plated that does not fill the stomach nor heart.
Phoebus - god after my own heart - god of light and prophecy! ;)
I'm going to keep a copy of your post, since it hits every nail on the head of what I believe:
- shameful generational theft
- space constraints on Madison
- Tork architectual design superior and in touch with the nature of "salt of the Earth" Estonians
- community activites will be scattered to the four winds (we won't be able to afford renting Madison)
- shooting gallery a grandfathered prized rarity, which we will never be able to recover in Toronto
- IEC activities could be run from a single room with a computer (not community oriented)
- VEMU will never be built (implied), no steam left to do so
- saddest point: we are still chasing "disaffected Estonians [to] appear out of the woodwork, attracted by a glass box in a downtown location". Finding "lost Estonians in Canada" IS A MYTH -- we've tried to entice these people for decades and they don't care about Estonian community activities. Why? Because they are perfectly content living their lives as CANADIANS. Why shouldn't they? Time to move on from this naive hope.
- nobody wants to go into downtown gridlock - car, bike, UBER or otherwise
- the elderly have been completely ignored by Madison choices, and they are now ignoring Madison by not giving up their $$$$ in support
"If the Madison movers had "listened to the ground"/ kuulanud maad paremini instead of their own hubris, they would have realized the greater good of the greater part of our community would have been better served by a meat and potatoes approach instead of a skimpy smaller dish beautifully plated that does not fill the stomach nor heart."
I think there could have been room for both -- "meat and potatoes" together with the "educated" lot presently running the show. "Meat and potatoes" were left out and left behind.
The egos of a few are now serving themselves in the name of community with the community's $. It will be a hollow building, an echo chamber, a tomb.
I'm going to keep a copy of your post, since it hits every nail on the head of what I believe:
- shameful generational theft
- space constraints on Madison
- Tork architectual design superior and in touch with the nature of "salt of the Earth" Estonians
- community activites will be scattered to the four winds (we won't be able to afford renting Madison)
- shooting gallery a grandfathered prized rarity, which we will never be able to recover in Toronto
- IEC activities could be run from a single room with a computer (not community oriented)
- VEMU will never be built (implied), no steam left to do so
- saddest point: we are still chasing "disaffected Estonians [to] appear out of the woodwork, attracted by a glass box in a downtown location". Finding "lost Estonians in Canada" IS A MYTH -- we've tried to entice these people for decades and they don't care about Estonian community activities. Why? Because they are perfectly content living their lives as CANADIANS. Why shouldn't they? Time to move on from this naive hope.
- nobody wants to go into downtown gridlock - car, bike, UBER or otherwise
- the elderly have been completely ignored by Madison choices, and they are now ignoring Madison by not giving up their $$$$ in support
"If the Madison movers had "listened to the ground"/ kuulanud maad paremini instead of their own hubris, they would have realized the greater good of the greater part of our community would have been better served by a meat and potatoes approach instead of a skimpy smaller dish beautifully plated that does not fill the stomach nor heart."
I think there could have been room for both -- "meat and potatoes" together with the "educated" lot presently running the show. "Meat and potatoes" were left out and left behind.
The egos of a few are now serving themselves in the name of community with the community's $. It will be a hollow building, an echo chamber, a tomb.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: hmmm (14:42), hmmm 2 (15:02)
Boards are elected to govern organizations. Shareholders have their say when they elect the Board. I hold the EH Board in high esteem. They have worked hard to make this happen. Those who actually frequent the EH can tell you of the smell of dead animals in the walls, etc. Others profess a great love for the building, but don't use it. It is time to move on. Our community is what is important. We will have a new home. I look forward to meeting with my community members there.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: An Observer (17:41)
If the EH board had worked as hard at maintaining the building as you say they've worked "on this" meaning transferring to Madison, the problems used to justify abandonment of Broadview (leaky roof, heating system etc.) would not have occurred. Vermin control is one such ongoing task and is an urban scourge that will not spare the Madison center built on top of subway tunnels.
As a Madison booster, you have "high esteem" for an EH board on whose watch the premises it was charged with maintaining ran down instead. Others do not share your faith as the deterioration was a process that went on for years before approaching shareholders with a plan to sell on the contention that the building was irredeemable. Yet it's clear a fraction of the millions being poured into Madison would have corrected deficiencies on Broadview and a creative renovation could have resulted in a facility more useful to the Estonian community as it presently exists in all its messy diversity, rather than solely for its urban sophisticate branch and a bank desiring a downtown location. Look at the wonders done to Vana Andres Church by its new owners. Where there's a will there's a way.
Speaking of will, was the controversial justification for selling EH i.e. its deterioration due to neglect? incompetence? purposeful? or truly unavoidable and incurable as the Board presented? Why was an alternative plan to spend millions complete with fundraising to renovate Estonian House never considered? It's not as though the Madison vision lacks glaring shortcomings mainly due to a problematic site limiting both what can be built over a subway in the shadow of surrounding taller buildings and with poor access by car. Why were share holders not given the option of weighing the two alternative sites for FUNCTION? Architects could bring beauty to either site but they cannot fix limitations of space and city roads or zoning.
As a Madison booster, you have "high esteem" for an EH board on whose watch the premises it was charged with maintaining ran down instead. Others do not share your faith as the deterioration was a process that went on for years before approaching shareholders with a plan to sell on the contention that the building was irredeemable. Yet it's clear a fraction of the millions being poured into Madison would have corrected deficiencies on Broadview and a creative renovation could have resulted in a facility more useful to the Estonian community as it presently exists in all its messy diversity, rather than solely for its urban sophisticate branch and a bank desiring a downtown location. Look at the wonders done to Vana Andres Church by its new owners. Where there's a will there's a way.
Speaking of will, was the controversial justification for selling EH i.e. its deterioration due to neglect? incompetence? purposeful? or truly unavoidable and incurable as the Board presented? Why was an alternative plan to spend millions complete with fundraising to renovate Estonian House never considered? It's not as though the Madison vision lacks glaring shortcomings mainly due to a problematic site limiting both what can be built over a subway in the shadow of surrounding taller buildings and with poor access by car. Why were share holders not given the option of weighing the two alternative sites for FUNCTION? Architects could bring beauty to either site but they cannot fix limitations of space and city roads or zoning.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Phoebus (10:40)
What I find is distressing is the making of all types of accusations. Not all will agree on any given subject. However for one side to accuse the other of dishonesty, etc is inappropriate. There are those volunteering considerable time for the community. The EH has been in bad financial shape for a number of years. I would quite frankly wonder how the EH can compete with other venues as to hall rentals, etc in it's current state of disrepair. There are no funds for other than emergency repairs. I am committed to the community and welcome a new facility. When visiting kodu eestlased say the EH reminds them of a Nõukogu vallamaja, i hang my head in shame. We can do better. Let's not denigrate others in our community.
Interesting to see how this Madison project has divided a strong Estonian community. It appears to me that the Estonian house proponents are trying to preserve the history, culture and traditions of the Estonian Toronto diaspora and at the same time honouring the work and volunteer efforts of the hundreds of parents and grandparents who built the Estonian House as a meeting place for all Estonians. The Madison project proponents seem to have little regard for preserving the past and instead are willing to sacrifice all the past for a new shiny Estonian International Centre for future business opportunities. It seems that the Estonian community (what's left of it) and its many organizations will be forced into this glass slipper of a business centre. It is also unfortunate, that whoever wins this struggle for survival, it will be a pyrrhic victory since you have lost 50% of the community.
Agree.
The present management group set themselves up for failure when they did not move forward with the interests of the whole community at heart. Ego put the interest of a few above the rest. They are hastening the demise of our community. A home for the community is becoming an International Estonian Centre for a privileged few, who will rent out to mainly non-Estonians so that they can remain solvent.
The present management group set themselves up for failure when they did not move forward with the interests of the whole community at heart. Ego put the interest of a few above the rest. They are hastening the demise of our community. A home for the community is becoming an International Estonian Centre for a privileged few, who will rent out to mainly non-Estonians so that they can remain solvent.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: hmmm (14:42)
Somebody mentioned that “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”
This is an arbitrary assertion and a restatement of the baseless moral theory known as utilitarianism, which asserts that each individual should act to serve the greatest good for the greatest number.
What logic actually dictates is that if human beings want to live and achieve happiness, they must identify and pursue the values that make that goal possible. As Ayn Rand points out, life makes values both possible and necessary. We need to eat—in order to live and prosper. We need to wear protective clothing and find shelter—in order to live and prosper. We need to pursue a productive career to gain goods and services—in order to live and prosper. The principle holds true in more-complex cases as well. We need to build friendships to gain a wide variety of intellectual, psychological, and material benefits—in order to live and prosper. We need to experience great art to see our values in concrete form—in order to live and prosper. The pattern holds for all our values. Logically, the only ultimate reason we need to pursue any value is in order to live and prosper.
This is an arbitrary assertion and a restatement of the baseless moral theory known as utilitarianism, which asserts that each individual should act to serve the greatest good for the greatest number.
What logic actually dictates is that if human beings want to live and achieve happiness, they must identify and pursue the values that make that goal possible. As Ayn Rand points out, life makes values both possible and necessary. We need to eat—in order to live and prosper. We need to wear protective clothing and find shelter—in order to live and prosper. We need to pursue a productive career to gain goods and services—in order to live and prosper. The principle holds true in more-complex cases as well. We need to build friendships to gain a wide variety of intellectual, psychological, and material benefits—in order to live and prosper. We need to experience great art to see our values in concrete form—in order to live and prosper. The pattern holds for all our values. Logically, the only ultimate reason we need to pursue any value is in order to live and prosper.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: From the sidelines (11:48)
Tulge Külla proposed a good design. Isn’t there a resemblance, with contemporary updates, to the preliminary drawings for Eesti Maja by celebrated architect M. Bach (except for the reflecting pool for racoons)? See and be seen! The rear, looking out onto and seen from the Don Valley, is a good upgrade for the Grand Hall or Suur Saal designed by Bach, and the café in front fits well with the old and the new directions for the neighbourhood... A legacy site and and landmark destination to be sure!
https://www.eesti.ca/tulge-kul...
https://www.eesti.ca/eesti-maj...
See the visuals at the beginning and end of the articles.
https://www.eesti.ca/tulge-kul...
https://www.eesti.ca/eesti-maj...
See the visuals at the beginning and end of the articles.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: surprising history (09:34)
WRONG..try again. Perhaps read the resolution first. Words mean things.
Yes. 1) The "agreement" gave all decision-making power away.
2) In what language was the agreement reached? Herein a possible legal challenge.
2) In what language was the agreement reached? Herein a possible legal challenge.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: surprising history (09:34), Compare designs (14:32)
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.