Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
I agree with Peeter Bush's commentary on the state of the expatirate Estonian Community. I am the only member of my family that speaks Estonian (my wife and children do not).Some organizations have made accommodations for non-Estonian speaking children/members such as the week for non-Estonian speakers at Joekaaru. Others are also moving in that direction, but many too slowly. It may well be that the choice in Canada for some organizations is to either slow death or radical change, and radical change may not be possible for many.
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0 It is truly sad to read comments such as yours. I feel sorry for your children as you have denied them the right to take part in their culture by not teaching them the language of their ancestors. I do not understand why someone like you who is obviously ashamed of your heritage would want to take part in any Estonian activities. Why don't you just change your name and become a real English Canadian?
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0Wow! What a response - not allowing for any personal choice, are you? Just like all the other language nazis in this country! - Face the facts. Being an esto in Canada today is a matter of choice, not obligation. Estonia the country is free, many have moved there from here, some back - retirees back to the country that they were forced to leave, some who grew up in Canada have chosen to go live, work, marry there. And what about all the young estos who have moved here for economic reasons, participate little in the community as it exists? The ones teaching at the esto school, work at the bank are just a fraction of those. Have any words for them? I know some who shrug when their kids speak English - they say, this is Canada, after all. And they have been here for only 10 years or so. All I can say is curb the extremism, look at the reality. As Peeter Bush wrote here, there is reality to face. The oldsters don't let the youngsters express their brand of nationalism - so many will chose to make their own choices - not railroaded by the likes of you!!!!
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0Why is it that attacking commentaries are usually anonomous? Constructive dialogue as I saw in several other comments was very helpful. Yours however, reflects a lack of character. I hope flaming emails is not your only form of entertainment. It certainly seems easy to draw negative commentary on this website. Just say anything that can be perceived to be a bit counter to hard line support for the local estonian culture and you've got it. Fortunately, the vast majority of local estos that I know are much more reasonable people, but it guess it takes all kinds. I do hope the local esto communities and organizations continue to flourish but it does seem that it is becoming a more difficult task for at least some organizations. May those that can adapt survive.
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0To Paul
It is not me that is denying anyone's choice, my whole point is that people like Peter Tiidus have decided to deny their children the right to their culture by not teaching them the Estonian language. They will be outsiders at Estonian parties and events, they will not understand our church services and not be able to read Estonian literature, except in translation.
I am amazed that there are still people who think that being a Canadian means that you must also be an Englishman. Estonian is also a Canadian language and I do not think of myself as any less of a Canadian even though I speak Estonian at home rather than English.
There was a time when it was the official policy of the Canadian government to supress other European cultures and languages and to make this country as British as possible. A TV show such as Telepeegel would have been illegal at one time since broadcasting in any other language but English or French was not permitted by the CRTC until the 1960s when the Italian community finally put enough pressure on our government to have the laws changed.
I do not see myself as an "extremist" since I am not advocating that we supress any other culture or language in the same way that ours was supressed here in the past and am simply advocating that we should be equals to the English and French since Estonian Canadians also helped to build this country and we have as much of a right as other Canadians to preserve our heritage.
It is not me that is denying anyone's choice, my whole point is that people like Peter Tiidus have decided to deny their children the right to their culture by not teaching them the Estonian language. They will be outsiders at Estonian parties and events, they will not understand our church services and not be able to read Estonian literature, except in translation.
I am amazed that there are still people who think that being a Canadian means that you must also be an Englishman. Estonian is also a Canadian language and I do not think of myself as any less of a Canadian even though I speak Estonian at home rather than English.
There was a time when it was the official policy of the Canadian government to supress other European cultures and languages and to make this country as British as possible. A TV show such as Telepeegel would have been illegal at one time since broadcasting in any other language but English or French was not permitted by the CRTC until the 1960s when the Italian community finally put enough pressure on our government to have the laws changed.
I do not see myself as an "extremist" since I am not advocating that we supress any other culture or language in the same way that ours was supressed here in the past and am simply advocating that we should be equals to the English and French since Estonian Canadians also helped to build this country and we have as much of a right as other Canadians to preserve our heritage.
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0FYI there is a great Estonian summer camp outside of Elora that has been catering to the non-Estonian speaking family. It's called Seedrioru and has been fully "bi-lingual" for nearly than three decades. Check it out at www.seedrioru.com
There is also a fairly active Estonian Society in KW and a fairly good gathering of "Esto" university students from Guelph, Waterloo and Laurier that get together on a regular basis.
The Toronto Estonian School program runs a "split program" where the children like yours are able to participate and learn the Estonian culture just like you and I did so many years ago.
Sure it's bit of hike, there are numerous families from the KW, Cambridge region that make the trip to the Estonian House once if not TWICE weekly. I've heard that sometime the drive takes two hours.
My family although not from KW also drive to the Estonian House twice weekly. On Tuesday nights it usually takes close to an hour. Occassionly we'll take the Go Train and then TTC it.
Is it worth the drive time ... ABSOLUTELY!! My child has made great friends in Estonian School, cubs and BOTH summer camps because we make it enjoyable for him and we enjoy ourselves.
Children are a reflection of their parents, if the parents enjoy going to Estonian functions (and don't complain about going or the drive) the children are more likely to enjoy the events too.
Your comments of changing too slowly might have been correct one or two decades ago but not now.
The next move is up to you.
There is also a fairly active Estonian Society in KW and a fairly good gathering of "Esto" university students from Guelph, Waterloo and Laurier that get together on a regular basis.
The Toronto Estonian School program runs a "split program" where the children like yours are able to participate and learn the Estonian culture just like you and I did so many years ago.
Sure it's bit of hike, there are numerous families from the KW, Cambridge region that make the trip to the Estonian House once if not TWICE weekly. I've heard that sometime the drive takes two hours.
My family although not from KW also drive to the Estonian House twice weekly. On Tuesday nights it usually takes close to an hour. Occassionly we'll take the Go Train and then TTC it.
Is it worth the drive time ... ABSOLUTELY!! My child has made great friends in Estonian School, cubs and BOTH summer camps because we make it enjoyable for him and we enjoy ourselves.
Children are a reflection of their parents, if the parents enjoy going to Estonian functions (and don't complain about going or the drive) the children are more likely to enjoy the events too.
Your comments of changing too slowly might have been correct one or two decades ago but not now.
The next move is up to you.
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0Mul on hea meel, et meie noorte organisatsioonid on võtnud samme, et mitte Eesti keelt kõnelevad Eesti päritoluga lapsed saaksid osaleda meie organisatsioonides, laagrites ja koolides. Olen näinud kuidas paljud on hakanud tahtma tahtma Eesti keelt õppida, et saaksid veelgi täiuslikumalt osaleda. On tähtis, et need noored tunneksid nende kuuluvust meie ühiskonda.
Leian siiski, et põhiline keel meie organisatsioonides peaks jääma Eesti keeleks. Mis põhjusega me õpetame oma lastele Eesti keelt, kui neil pole kohta kus seda kuulda ja kasutada (peale kodu)?
Kus häda näed laita, seal tule ja aita!
Loodan, et kirjakirjutajad ühineksid organisatsioonidega ja aitaksid ise kaasa.
Head vana aasta lõppu!
Leian siiski, et põhiline keel meie organisatsioonides peaks jääma Eesti keeleks. Mis põhjusega me õpetame oma lastele Eesti keelt, kui neil pole kohta kus seda kuulda ja kasutada (peale kodu)?
Kus häda näed laita, seal tule ja aita!
Loodan, et kirjakirjutajad ühineksid organisatsioonidega ja aitaksid ise kaasa.
Head vana aasta lõppu!
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0 I know that I have been one of your most vocal critics in the past but this time I think that you have raised some very valid points in your article.
I do not think that the death of our community is inevitable as some of our pessimists keep saying and am much more optimistic now than I was a few years ago. There are now many 3rd generation Estonians who speak our language fluently (some better than their parents) and this is a very positive sign since some were saying 50 years ago that our language would not survive beyond the 2nd generation. There has also been a renewed interest in learning the language by people with Estonian parents or grandparents who were not taught Estonian. I hope that Mr. Tiidus's children will also start attending Estonian classes someday so that we can pull them back into our community. Also, we should not forget that there are even non-Estonians that admire our culture so much that they have learned our language. I know one lady here in Toronto who is not Estonian and has never been to Estonia but speaks our language. I have also heard of a few others like her.
Now that there is no longer any official policy by the Canadian government to destroy our culture or language I feel that we must radically re-think our strategy for survival. We should no longer think of ourselves as "pagulased" since Estonia is now a free country (although less independent than a few years ago) and start to think of ourselves as Estonian-speaking Canadians.
Our culture will not survive as a part-time hobby. We can only keep our language alive if we have a territory (or territories), however small, where Estonian is the everyday spoken language and also, we must educate our children in Estonian. We have been talking about an Estonian school for 50 years now but it is still no more than an idea. I think it is an idea whose time has come. The Ukrainian community has established many schools for their children in Western Canada in the last 10 years. We should be able to receive funding from the Estonian community here and possibly from the Estonian government as well. We can also work with the Ukranians and other Euro-Canadians who have the same concerns that we do. Teachers in Estonia are poorly paid and we should have no problem recruiting some to come here to teach. It could be done in the same manner as in the churches that bring ministers here from Estonia. Much money has been spent on "peod ja aktused" over the years but is not the education of our children in the language and culture of our ancestors not much more important?
I do not think that the death of our community is inevitable as some of our pessimists keep saying and am much more optimistic now than I was a few years ago. There are now many 3rd generation Estonians who speak our language fluently (some better than their parents) and this is a very positive sign since some were saying 50 years ago that our language would not survive beyond the 2nd generation. There has also been a renewed interest in learning the language by people with Estonian parents or grandparents who were not taught Estonian. I hope that Mr. Tiidus's children will also start attending Estonian classes someday so that we can pull them back into our community. Also, we should not forget that there are even non-Estonians that admire our culture so much that they have learned our language. I know one lady here in Toronto who is not Estonian and has never been to Estonia but speaks our language. I have also heard of a few others like her.
Now that there is no longer any official policy by the Canadian government to destroy our culture or language I feel that we must radically re-think our strategy for survival. We should no longer think of ourselves as "pagulased" since Estonia is now a free country (although less independent than a few years ago) and start to think of ourselves as Estonian-speaking Canadians.
Our culture will not survive as a part-time hobby. We can only keep our language alive if we have a territory (or territories), however small, where Estonian is the everyday spoken language and also, we must educate our children in Estonian. We have been talking about an Estonian school for 50 years now but it is still no more than an idea. I think it is an idea whose time has come. The Ukrainian community has established many schools for their children in Western Canada in the last 10 years. We should be able to receive funding from the Estonian community here and possibly from the Estonian government as well. We can also work with the Ukranians and other Euro-Canadians who have the same concerns that we do. Teachers in Estonia are poorly paid and we should have no problem recruiting some to come here to teach. It could be done in the same manner as in the churches that bring ministers here from Estonia. Much money has been spent on "peod ja aktused" over the years but is not the education of our children in the language and culture of our ancestors not much more important?
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0The situation in Ottawa and Montreal is very different from Toronto. Yes change has been slow, but those organizations that have adapted to realities have survived and will continue to gain members. Some clubs will simply disappear as they relate to the generation born in Estonia before about 1940.
We all make choices in how to spend our time and money. What we should support are those families who have made the effort to expose their children to the Estonian language and allowed them to share experiences which will inevitably forge some bonds or friendships for the next generation.
New members are welcome to join the Toronto Estonian school, churches, scout and guide troops, gymnastics clubs, fraternities, sororities etc. - language abilities are not a pre requisite. You will inevitably find that for major events the principal language is Estonian. Several parents of mixed marriages participate and donate their time and I am always amazed at their generosity and support - they are truly nice people. Try it the effort may be worth it - the first step is yours.
We all make choices in how to spend our time and money. What we should support are those families who have made the effort to expose their children to the Estonian language and allowed them to share experiences which will inevitably forge some bonds or friendships for the next generation.
New members are welcome to join the Toronto Estonian school, churches, scout and guide troops, gymnastics clubs, fraternities, sororities etc. - language abilities are not a pre requisite. You will inevitably find that for major events the principal language is Estonian. Several parents of mixed marriages participate and donate their time and I am always amazed at their generosity and support - they are truly nice people. Try it the effort may be worth it - the first step is yours.
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0Dear Mr. P. Tiidus,
It seems to me, that you are feeling bad, that your children do not know how to speak the estonian language. You yourself, have, in my opinion, actually been the "language Nazi", having "not allowed for any personal choice" in your OWN children as to what languages they could speak. What choice does a 2-3 year old child anywhere have, as to what language(s) they will be spoken to with????? Parents make that choice.
Please explain to me WHY you want your children to be "Estos" (in Canada), or anywhere else for that matter??? What is the attraction?? Why now?? What for?? Why not want to be French in Canada??? Surely canadians have learned more French than any other language in Canada??
Your struggle with yourself and the sadness you feel, now that the time is over for your children to have gotten a grasp of the Estonian language, is, I believe, very common, in people who regret the lack of effort in having their children speak another language, especially their own ancestral heritage language. (One can ask, "Were these parents 'Estos' at heart themselves????????) It seems, that one typically begins to DOWNPLAY the need for speaking estonian to be "an Esto"?? What does "be an esto " mean to you anyway????Please clear that up also. Perhaps some people thought that because their parents spoke estonian, it was a GENETIC given, that their offspring do also? What a thing to leave to chance!!!!
As the age old saying goes, "With Language comes Culture "--whether you like it or not! How could it be otherwise, Ku_at?????
It seems to me, that you are feeling bad, that your children do not know how to speak the estonian language. You yourself, have, in my opinion, actually been the "language Nazi", having "not allowed for any personal choice" in your OWN children as to what languages they could speak. What choice does a 2-3 year old child anywhere have, as to what language(s) they will be spoken to with????? Parents make that choice.
Please explain to me WHY you want your children to be "Estos" (in Canada), or anywhere else for that matter??? What is the attraction?? Why now?? What for?? Why not want to be French in Canada??? Surely canadians have learned more French than any other language in Canada??
Your struggle with yourself and the sadness you feel, now that the time is over for your children to have gotten a grasp of the Estonian language, is, I believe, very common, in people who regret the lack of effort in having their children speak another language, especially their own ancestral heritage language. (One can ask, "Were these parents 'Estos' at heart themselves????????) It seems, that one typically begins to DOWNPLAY the need for speaking estonian to be "an Esto"?? What does "be an esto " mean to you anyway????Please clear that up also. Perhaps some people thought that because their parents spoke estonian, it was a GENETIC given, that their offspring do also? What a thing to leave to chance!!!!
As the age old saying goes, "With Language comes Culture "--whether you like it or not! How could it be otherwise, Ku_at?????
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