Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
It seems that the executive, by the church's constitution, must avoid initiating any changes or renewals.
33
9Why has there been no change in Executive members in 6 years? What are these Executive members trying to protect?
30
11I dont believe the other lutheran and baptist church has had a change in their executive either. Does that make them better?
8
13...because the nõukogu keeps voting them back in...
And why does the nõukogu keep voting them back in? Because no-one else is willing to do the hard work and also because the täiskogu keeps voting the nõukogu back in.
The power is truly and exclusively in the hands of the Congregation!!!
And why does the nõukogu keep voting them back in? Because no-one else is willing to do the hard work and also because the täiskogu keeps voting the nõukogu back in.
The power is truly and exclusively in the hands of the Congregation!!!
17
7Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: atfosp (14:40)
What laziness. But that is always the way...turn around and deflect.. it's not my job..I'm only the boss...I don't have to work. It IS the ministers job to attract new members and to give what current members are looking for. We don't need history lessons on Estonia. It IS the Executives job to arrange events, look for ways to save and make money. The trouble is, there is a select group that only wants like minded people in their corner. Executive and council members are hand picked. If you can't do the job, and it's apparent you cannot, then why don't you all resign and let a whole new group of people come to run the church. There is no shame in letting others have a go when you can't get the job done. I know of many who would, but don't want to battle the current mindset within the church. Clear the halls, in luding the minister, and let a whole new team come in.
36
14number one need is a new sincere minister, not a Soviet era thinking and trained 'Christian' administrator.
30
13If you want to get rid of the Executive and the Nõukogu, you can just simply vote them out just like you simply voted them in!!! If you want a new pastor, you can simply go out and get a new one. Nobody is stopping you. There are no barriers except the ones in your mind. ... and the broken record keeps playing...
19
22Lazy is the non-believer who sits comfortably at home while expecting others to do the work, never pitch in to help out, donate a measly $2 a year, and pretend to be holy while taking communion!!!
24
7@ atfsop13 It is not as simple as just voting them out. Who gets on is pre-planned. It is like a magic show with stooges planted into the audience. "Regular" people don't get elected because there is a majority of voters who are told who to vote for.
Look how the last vote was done... lots of new faces and members all there just to get the vote to close the columbarium through. As to getting a new minister.. same problem. There are labour lawyers who could do the job nicely, severance pay and you are gone, but the Executive has to be in agreement. If the current Executive truly loves the church and the congregation, then why don't they step down and let someone else try? What is the harm? They vowed to step down anyway if the 1st vote didn't go through. So why are they still there hanging on by their teeth and nails? For goodness sake step aside!
Look how the last vote was done... lots of new faces and members all there just to get the vote to close the columbarium through. As to getting a new minister.. same problem. There are labour lawyers who could do the job nicely, severance pay and you are gone, but the Executive has to be in agreement. If the current Executive truly loves the church and the congregation, then why don't they step down and let someone else try? What is the harm? They vowed to step down anyway if the 1st vote didn't go through. So why are they still there hanging on by their teeth and nails? For goodness sake step aside!
29
11Oh, so you're volunteering? Good luck! May the force be with you.
16
1Dear misguided Koguduse liige, Look closer! Yes, it is that simple! Regular people have more power than a few stooges. But the Regular people obviously can face reality and that is why more than 2/3's of them voted the way they did in favour of finding a buyer and the Columbarium closure (if you paid any attention) and the Executive did not have to resign. Who are hanging on for dear life by their teeth and nails are the Frienzies!!! :D :D :D
15
18PK Congregation voted to join ELCIC on September 27, 2020. ELCIC requires that each year 3 people from the Board are required to resign, and are replaced with 3 new Board members. PK has gone over 6 years and through two ELCIC Board voting periods without one Board resignation. Thus the current board is illegitimate, and does not have the right to proceed with any new business, until a Board with 3 new members is elected.
17
6Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: ? (09:28)
So you tell me how we got this minister from Eesti, who had a 1 year contract, which was extended to 5 years- and is ongoing. Who got him here? Did the congregation do that? Who signed his contract? Why is everything done behind our backs? The juhatus should just step down, this is no longer a church, this is a debacle!
Time to clear the decks and start again!! And get a local minister while you are at it- one who can speak English. I hear there is an ELCIC church closing not far from St. Peters- why not invite that minister for a trial?
And in response to this article- I think it’s about time the congregation takes charge and invites new ministers to speak in English- as the author requested!! But will the juhatus allow this? Probably not- it’s their way or the highway.
Really this is so sad, this is not the heart of God- He wants unity and the Body to be as one.
Is anyone praying in this congregation or are we worshipping Eestlus? If so, we really will end up as Mis? Kes? Kus???
To Ellen Valter and Alar Kongats- take your Road Show somewhere else!
Time to clear the decks and start again!! And get a local minister while you are at it- one who can speak English. I hear there is an ELCIC church closing not far from St. Peters- why not invite that minister for a trial?
And in response to this article- I think it’s about time the congregation takes charge and invites new ministers to speak in English- as the author requested!! But will the juhatus allow this? Probably not- it’s their way or the highway.
Really this is so sad, this is not the heart of God- He wants unity and the Body to be as one.
Is anyone praying in this congregation or are we worshipping Eestlus? If so, we really will end up as Mis? Kes? Kus???
To Ellen Valter and Alar Kongats- take your Road Show somewhere else!
31
17Each year 3 people from the Board have always resigned. Nothing in the Constitution says they cannot be voted right back in though! Everything is clear and above board. ...even when the member's eyes fogged unable to see it clearly.
12
6This may well be the most condescending article I've ever read in this rag.
17
12Cry harder...
10
6Kui muudmoodi aru ei saada ja kops on läinud üle maksa, siis tuleb teha sõnum puust ja punaseks. Südameasjadega on keerulised lood...
9
12Asjad ei pea keerulised olema kui inimesed on ausad ja ei tehta seljataga plaane, õpetaja eesotsas. See on puust ja punane! Kui meie nii käitume, meie ei kesta üle aja. Tundmatu tulevik.
31
7"Korruptsioonist ja ebaõiglusest EELK juhtimises": "29.–30.11.2021 toimuvale kirikukogule [esitati] otsustamiseks Eesti Evangeelse Luterliku Kiriku (EELK) majandusliku juhtimise valdkonda kuuluv eelnõu, mis teeb teise nurga alt puust ja punaseks EELK juhtimise ja „arendamise“ viimaste aastate teoloogilis-sisulise fundamentaalprobleemi, mille süvenemist EELK elus ja kaalu võib-olla mõni ei ole veel tajunud või mõistnud ....
Kui juhtimine ja otsustamine koondub üha kitsama (ja viimselt ühe isiku) kätte, kui väheneb ühine vastutus (kirikukogu roll) ja vastastikune kriitilise tagasisidestamise võimalus, muutub juhtimine ja otsustamine järjest läbipaistmatumaks ja suureneb tõsiselt korruptsioonioht.
Korruptsioon tähendab Eesti Keele Seletava Sõnaraamatu kohaselt „ametiseisundi kuritarvitamist omakasu eesmärgil”. See, mis praegu EELK (majanduslikus) juhtimises on toimumas, ei oleks korruptsioon üksnes siis, kui evangeelse luterliku vaimsuse ja teoloogia võtmes vastaks tõesti tõele see, et peapiiskop ongi kirik.
Sõnaraamat toob korruptsiooni tähendusena ka „moraalse laostumise”. Olukord, kus tõsimeeli tehakse ettepanek peapiiskopi ja kiriku teiste töötegijate ekstreemseks palgalõheks, on tegemist ebaõiglusega, mis sisaldab ka korruptsiooni seda tähendust.
Kiriku õpetustraditsiooni ja teoloogialoo taustal teame: corruptio optima pessima. EELK kui usuosaduse eluläte ja kutsumus on ka oma elukorraldusega tunnistada Jumala evangeeliumist, mis äratab ja inspireerib vastutavale elule armastuse ja vabaduse vaimus. Peapiiskopi palga küsimus on ilmekas näide sellest, millises vaimus ja suunas üldisemalt praegu EELK juhtimine ja arendamine toimub: see on teoloogiliselt-korralduslikult-majanduslikult absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik.
Selline areng on meie väikesele ja vaesele kirikule otseselt kahjulik ja pärsib meie suutlikkust elada ja tegutseda kirikuna.
Kirikliku ühiselu korraldamises on eluliselt tähtis arvestada põhimõtteid nagu kaasamine, avalik argumenteeriv arutelukultuur, solidaarsus, läbipaistvus, juhtimisorganite vastasmõju ja tasakaalustamine jne. Seevastu absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik on kiriku karikatuur, mis varjutab ja moonutab evangeeliumi tõde, mida oleme nii üksikisikute kui kirikuna meie ühiskonnas kutsutud elama ja tunnistama. Absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik on kirik peapiiskopi, mitte evangeeliumi teenistuses."
Täismahus: https://www.eesti.ca/thomas-an...
Kui juhtimine ja otsustamine koondub üha kitsama (ja viimselt ühe isiku) kätte, kui väheneb ühine vastutus (kirikukogu roll) ja vastastikune kriitilise tagasisidestamise võimalus, muutub juhtimine ja otsustamine järjest läbipaistmatumaks ja suureneb tõsiselt korruptsioonioht.
Korruptsioon tähendab Eesti Keele Seletava Sõnaraamatu kohaselt „ametiseisundi kuritarvitamist omakasu eesmärgil”. See, mis praegu EELK (majanduslikus) juhtimises on toimumas, ei oleks korruptsioon üksnes siis, kui evangeelse luterliku vaimsuse ja teoloogia võtmes vastaks tõesti tõele see, et peapiiskop ongi kirik.
Sõnaraamat toob korruptsiooni tähendusena ka „moraalse laostumise”. Olukord, kus tõsimeeli tehakse ettepanek peapiiskopi ja kiriku teiste töötegijate ekstreemseks palgalõheks, on tegemist ebaõiglusega, mis sisaldab ka korruptsiooni seda tähendust.
Kiriku õpetustraditsiooni ja teoloogialoo taustal teame: corruptio optima pessima. EELK kui usuosaduse eluläte ja kutsumus on ka oma elukorraldusega tunnistada Jumala evangeeliumist, mis äratab ja inspireerib vastutavale elule armastuse ja vabaduse vaimus. Peapiiskopi palga küsimus on ilmekas näide sellest, millises vaimus ja suunas üldisemalt praegu EELK juhtimine ja arendamine toimub: see on teoloogiliselt-korralduslikult-majanduslikult absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik.
Selline areng on meie väikesele ja vaesele kirikule otseselt kahjulik ja pärsib meie suutlikkust elada ja tegutseda kirikuna.
Kirikliku ühiselu korraldamises on eluliselt tähtis arvestada põhimõtteid nagu kaasamine, avalik argumenteeriv arutelukultuur, solidaarsus, läbipaistvus, juhtimisorganite vastasmõju ja tasakaalustamine jne. Seevastu absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik on kiriku karikatuur, mis varjutab ja moonutab evangeeliumi tõde, mida oleme nii üksikisikute kui kirikuna meie ühiskonnas kutsutud elama ja tunnistama. Absolutistlik kirikuvürstiriik on kirik peapiiskopi, mitte evangeeliumi teenistuses."
Täismahus: https://www.eesti.ca/thomas-an...
3
2Same crap as with EM. Most whine but refuse to take any real action. When a few dedicated folks make the hard decisions that need to be made, the do nothings that only know how to run their mouths rip these people apart. I for one have the utmost respect for the leadership that takes action deapite the dire apathy we deal with. Bravo. The people who matter are with you!
26
16You must come from the George W. Bush school of hard knocks. We can make the tough decisions. You are either with us or against us. Georgy didn't have to bomb Iraq but he was able to make the hard decision. What a huge mistake!
7
5Your comparisons are delusionally absurd. You must be one of the Friends of EH. But dont worry, proceeds from this sale will serve KESKUS well..thank you.
6
16Why do we even need a 46$ million facility when we can have a virtual keskus- as the game showed us, quite cute when it worked? With augmented reality so much more can be done.
And people can rent halls/schools wherever they might actually go- I mean, seriously, if people didn’t attend church except for special occasions, wouldn’t that be the same with the keskus? So many people are moving out of Toronto, for young people it’s prohibitive. And the Virtual could be so much fun- old people can talk to young people with avatars globally - time to check it out and take the game to a whole new level- and forget the parking issue!
And people can rent halls/schools wherever they might actually go- I mean, seriously, if people didn’t attend church except for special occasions, wouldn’t that be the same with the keskus? So many people are moving out of Toronto, for young people it’s prohibitive. And the Virtual could be so much fun- old people can talk to young people with avatars globally - time to check it out and take the game to a whole new level- and forget the parking issue!
7
2"On Corruption and Injustice in the Governance of the EELC":
“As leadership and decision-making become increasingly concentrated in the hands of a narrower (and ultimately single) group, as shared responsibility (the role of the church council) and the possibility for mutual critical feedback diminish, leadership and decision-making become increasingly opaque and the risk of corruption seriously increases.
Corruption, according to the Explanatory Dictionary of the Estonian Language, means "the abuse of official position for personal gain". What is currently happening in the (economic) management of the EELC would not be corruption only if, in terms of evangelical Lutheran spirituality and theology, it were really true that the archbishop [minister] is the church.
The dictionary also gives the meaning of corruption as 'moral corruption'. A situation where an extreme pay gap between the Archbishop and other church workers is seriously proposed is an injustice which includes this meaning of corruption.
In the context of the Church's doctrinal tradition and theological history, we know: corruptio optima pessima. It is also the life's mission and vocation of the Church, as a religious community, to bear witness to God's Gospel through its way of life, which awakens and inspires responsible living in a spirit of love and freedom. The question of the Archbishop's salary is a striking example of the spirit and direction in which the EELC is currently being led and developed in general: it is a theologically-structurally-economically absolutist ecclesiastical principality.
Such a development is directly detrimental to our small and impoverished church and undermines our ability to live and function as a church.
It is vital to take account of principles such as inclusiveness, a culture of open and reasoned debate, solidarity, transparency, interaction and balancing of governing bodies, etc. in the organisation of the common life of the Church. By contrast, an absolutist Papal States is a caricature of the Church that obscures and distorts the truth of the Gospel that we are called to live and witness to in our society, both as individuals and as a Church. An absolutist Papacy is the Church at the service of the Archbishop, not the Gospel."
The commentary in its entirety can be read here [it translates well using free DeepL]:
https://www.eesti.ca/thomas-an...
“As leadership and decision-making become increasingly concentrated in the hands of a narrower (and ultimately single) group, as shared responsibility (the role of the church council) and the possibility for mutual critical feedback diminish, leadership and decision-making become increasingly opaque and the risk of corruption seriously increases.
Corruption, according to the Explanatory Dictionary of the Estonian Language, means "the abuse of official position for personal gain". What is currently happening in the (economic) management of the EELC would not be corruption only if, in terms of evangelical Lutheran spirituality and theology, it were really true that the archbishop [minister] is the church.
The dictionary also gives the meaning of corruption as 'moral corruption'. A situation where an extreme pay gap between the Archbishop and other church workers is seriously proposed is an injustice which includes this meaning of corruption.
In the context of the Church's doctrinal tradition and theological history, we know: corruptio optima pessima. It is also the life's mission and vocation of the Church, as a religious community, to bear witness to God's Gospel through its way of life, which awakens and inspires responsible living in a spirit of love and freedom. The question of the Archbishop's salary is a striking example of the spirit and direction in which the EELC is currently being led and developed in general: it is a theologically-structurally-economically absolutist ecclesiastical principality.
Such a development is directly detrimental to our small and impoverished church and undermines our ability to live and function as a church.
It is vital to take account of principles such as inclusiveness, a culture of open and reasoned debate, solidarity, transparency, interaction and balancing of governing bodies, etc. in the organisation of the common life of the Church. By contrast, an absolutist Papal States is a caricature of the Church that obscures and distorts the truth of the Gospel that we are called to live and witness to in our society, both as individuals and as a Church. An absolutist Papacy is the Church at the service of the Archbishop, not the Gospel."
The commentary in its entirety can be read here [it translates well using free DeepL]:
https://www.eesti.ca/thomas-an...
9
4Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Et uurida sarnasusi (16:43)
Olev, you say"It is not the job of the
Executuve to save the church"; you failed to add it is not the job for the
minister to sell the church or consult with any council or Bank in support of selling Peetri Kirik(PK). Our Ras-putinlik minister has no faith or loyalty to ELCIC. His Faith is first and foremost to himself and EELK. Did he ever mention to the congregation that he wouldbe a candidate in the Estonian Elections? In his Evangelical Mission he fails to save the very church that employs him. When did you select him in a vote from many of the other candidates who left a presence at PK? Tuhkru, Auksman,Luhamets etc.? One day he shows up without any voting process. The current executive is a sham. Are they afraid of a Forensic Audit or are they padding the executive with like minded friends? You are clearly right on one point, it's up to the congregation to save the church. It is time to put a HOLD on any more function of PK. It is time to vote a non-confidence in the executive, non-confidence of Minister, and EELK. Peetri Kirik was once a Vaba Rahva Kirik, Luteriusu Kirik! In the late 30's it was 80% Luteriusu. Restore our self determination as a church. The ELCIC will sheppard us in this recovery. Enough of the disinformation propagated by kiriku uhendamine in 2011. It is no wonder that 8% of estlased today are lutheran when EELK took Liberty from our Faith. Judgement Day is approaching and rats are jumping the ship, padding their life savers with proxies or any other means to sell our spiritual, memorial church.
Executuve to save the church"; you failed to add it is not the job for the
minister to sell the church or consult with any council or Bank in support of selling Peetri Kirik(PK). Our Ras-putinlik minister has no faith or loyalty to ELCIC. His Faith is first and foremost to himself and EELK. Did he ever mention to the congregation that he wouldbe a candidate in the Estonian Elections? In his Evangelical Mission he fails to save the very church that employs him. When did you select him in a vote from many of the other candidates who left a presence at PK? Tuhkru, Auksman,Luhamets etc.? One day he shows up without any voting process. The current executive is a sham. Are they afraid of a Forensic Audit or are they padding the executive with like minded friends? You are clearly right on one point, it's up to the congregation to save the church. It is time to put a HOLD on any more function of PK. It is time to vote a non-confidence in the executive, non-confidence of Minister, and EELK. Peetri Kirik was once a Vaba Rahva Kirik, Luteriusu Kirik! In the late 30's it was 80% Luteriusu. Restore our self determination as a church. The ELCIC will sheppard us in this recovery. Enough of the disinformation propagated by kiriku uhendamine in 2011. It is no wonder that 8% of estlased today are lutheran when EELK took Liberty from our Faith. Judgement Day is approaching and rats are jumping the ship, padding their life savers with proxies or any other means to sell our spiritual, memorial church.
26
9Jumal vabastagu Sind Sinu pattu môttedest ja vabadust Sinu kurjusest.
Olgu Jumala armu vaim Sinuga kui seisad Jumala trooni valguses kus Kôigevägevam vabastab Sind Sinu patudest ja valedest .
May the love of almighty God give you peace and understanding in your earthly life until you stand before the throne on Judgement Day.
Usk, lootus armastus aga kôige suurem neist on armastus.
Olgu Jumala armu vaim Sinuga kui seisad Jumala trooni valguses kus Kôigevägevam vabastab Sind Sinu patudest ja valedest .
May the love of almighty God give you peace and understanding in your earthly life until you stand before the throne on Judgement Day.
Usk, lootus armastus aga kôige suurem neist on armastus.
7
7"The real moment in time and the real situation being simultaneous with real people, each of whom is something: that is what helps to sustain the individual. . . . taught to be content, in the highest religious sense, with himself instead of being in agreement with a public which destroys everything that is relative, concrete and particular in life; educated to find peace within herself and with God, instead of counting hands." (The Present Age)
Much of Kierkegaard's work deals with Christian love. He wa critical of the doctrine and practice of Christianity as a state-controlled religion like the Church of Denmark. His psychological work explored the emotions and feelings of individuals when faced with life choices.
Much of Kierkegaard's work deals with Christian love. He wa critical of the doctrine and practice of Christianity as a state-controlled religion like the Church of Denmark. His psychological work explored the emotions and feelings of individuals when faced with life choices.
3
0Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Et uurida sarnasusi (16:43), To probe similarities (17:09)
“Reaalne hetk ajas ja reaalne olukord, mis on samaaegselt reaalsete inimestega, kellest igaüks on midagi: see on see, mis aitab indiviidi säilitada. ... õpetatakse olema kõrgeimas religioosses mõttes rahul iseendaga, selle asemel, et olla kooskõlas avalikkusega, mis hävitab kõik, mis on elus suhteline, konkreetne ja eriomane; õpetatakse leidma rahu iseendas ja Jumalaga, selle asemel, et lugeda hääli."
(The Present Age)
Suur osa Kierkegaardi loomingust käsitleb kristlikku armastust. Ta oli kriitiline kristluse kui riigi poolt kontrollitud religiooni nagu Taani Kirik, õpetuse ja praktika suhtes. Tema psühholoogilised tööd uurisid inimeste emotsioone ja tundeid, kui nad seisavad silmitsi eluvalikutega.
(The Present Age)
Suur osa Kierkegaardi loomingust käsitleb kristlikku armastust. Ta oli kriitiline kristluse kui riigi poolt kontrollitud religiooni nagu Taani Kirik, õpetuse ja praktika suhtes. Tema psühholoogilised tööd uurisid inimeste emotsioone ja tundeid, kui nad seisavad silmitsi eluvalikutega.
2
0Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Et uurida sarnasusi (16:43), To probe similarities (17:09), Lutheran (21:16)
Kas Ilmutuse raamatuse kirikud on olemas? Miks mitte? Nad unustasid oma esimese armastuse, Jumala. Mis on meie esimene armastus?
Armastus on ka ausalt õelda, mis on puudulik ja otsida võimalust seda parandada- ja kogudusega väljendada uut visiooni tulevikuks.
Mis on meie tuleviku plaan? Müüme kiriku maha, kiiresti.
Maybe God has left the building and we don’t even know it. Maybe our goal should be to return to our first love. And use our lovely house of worship to do it. And set our goals accordingly.
Armastus on ka ausalt õelda, mis on puudulik ja otsida võimalust seda parandada- ja kogudusega väljendada uut visiooni tulevikuks.
Mis on meie tuleviku plaan? Müüme kiriku maha, kiiresti.
Maybe God has left the building and we don’t even know it. Maybe our goal should be to return to our first love. And use our lovely house of worship to do it. And set our goals accordingly.
13
2Excellent point- why does the Juhatus do things behind our back, invite a new minister without telling the congregation? Is this “day to day operations”? What say does the congregation have? The Nõukogu is a rubber stamp. Why can’t we have a local minister?
The Juhatus should resign. And leave. That is the only way to get real change, then people will step up to help.
To the Board: Just leave.
To E.E.L.K.: Keep your Estonian ministers in Eesti, where they are needed.
And you know what’s really sad: that this whole scenario has to play out not within the church, but on the world stage. What does that say about our leadership?
Juhatus, just keep that in mind when you sign yourselves up for re-election!
The Juhatus should resign. And leave. That is the only way to get real change, then people will step up to help.
To the Board: Just leave.
To E.E.L.K.: Keep your Estonian ministers in Eesti, where they are needed.
And you know what’s really sad: that this whole scenario has to play out not within the church, but on the world stage. What does that say about our leadership?
Juhatus, just keep that in mind when you sign yourselves up for re-election!
18
10Your petulant whining is irritating. You people all rips apart juhatused at every organization we have yet not one of you ever had the stones to step up and do the job. No, I think it is YOU that should go away.
9
18Canada Lutheran magazine, March 2023.
https://canadalutheran.ca/look...
Would be nice if St. Peter’s could be involved with an environmental organization or two.
https://canadalutheran.ca/look...
Would be nice if St. Peter’s could be involved with an environmental organization or two.
1
0Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Et uurida sarnasusi (16:43), To probe similarities (17:09), Lutheran (21:16), Luterlane (22:20)
Bravo Melchior! Could not have put it better myself. And one “rat” is leaving Peetri Kirik we hear. New imported minister as of June 30. MS= Mission Success ? Don’t think so.
13
4fFor a person who cannot even spell shepherd properly, your facts are wrong. The pastors you mention were not interested in coming to Toronto and there was only one candidate which was approved by the then congregation and minister. It is shameful that this website allows such vitriol.
14
17Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Vau (17:27)
It was a 1 year contract, to see if there was a fit. Then- it’s 5 years! And then- we’re stuck with him! Maybe we should start to groom our ministers here and plan for the next generation. It’s easier to translate sermons than to find a sincere minister with a heart for his congregation. And a love and compassion for people.
19
6It's amazing to watch how some people come unglued when the inconvenient irrefutable truth is finally revealed.
12
5Nii kahju lugeda seda juttu meie ilusa ja hubase kiriku kohta. On ikka pühakoda ja mitte mingi labane varandus mille rahalist väärtust himustakse.
Nii kahju ka, et küüditamise aastapäeval antakse kord lahkuda. Kes seda nii plaanis? Õudne värk. Häbiplekk. Saadab külmavärinad läbi keha. Ja rahvas on nii leige, et läheb kõigega kaasa, kui käsk antakse. Tulge ometi oma häält andma selle vastu!
Kaob kirik, kaob märkmik pagulaste rännust. Siin me siis oleme. Nii kahju.
Me pole ikka õpetust saanud, meie ei kesta üle aja.
Nii kahju ka, et küüditamise aastapäeval antakse kord lahkuda. Kes seda nii plaanis? Õudne värk. Häbiplekk. Saadab külmavärinad läbi keha. Ja rahvas on nii leige, et läheb kõigega kaasa, kui käsk antakse. Tulge ometi oma häält andma selle vastu!
Kaob kirik, kaob märkmik pagulaste rännust. Siin me siis oleme. Nii kahju.
Me pole ikka õpetust saanud, meie ei kesta üle aja.
9
3'A house divided against itself can no longer exist,' - Lincoln. As someone who thinks he's objective and neutral (probably impossible), this divide in our community is deeper and wider than the Kaikameeste jaht paar generatsiooni tagasi. Nameslinging, hyperbole, self-righteousness should not be characteristic of us as Estos. I was wrong. St. Peter's is a well deserved lesson. Unfortunately our education came too late.
9
0Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Wow (07:42)
Only because a church is not a cultural club ...oh how sad that the frantic friendzies dont get it.
4
490% of these comments come from the maggots who for decades stood on the sidelines and only ridiculed. Not one ever served on a board, volunteered their time, or donated a dollar of funds. Yet they are the ones going to great lengths to slander hard working juhatus members of the executive much the same way they did the EH board. Do us all a favour and go f—k off! Dont go away mad…just go away. KESKUS rocks!
8
12Estonians have been held in high regard by Latvians for decades, if not centuries. I will therefore take the risk of expressing my opinion, and of course I mean well.
Until such time as KESKUS will have been built, I wouldn't sell the St. Peter's Church.
Until such time as KESKUS will have been built, I wouldn't sell the St. Peter's Church.
17
6Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.
