Hr. Bush

Culture/heritage/language is only reinforced in a structured program aka school but it is in the home that one gets the daily practice that endures through out time. Both my sisters married non-Estonians yet thankfully are in a financial situation that they are able to afford "legal" au pairs from Estonia. Their children's Estonian is as good (if not better) than many who attend the Estonian schools in Toronto. They din't wait for the government to hand out a stipend to assist them in the bringing up of their children. I guess they learned from our parents to make the most of what they had. "Our" parents when they created the Estonian House, Seedrioru, Jôekääru, Kotkajärve or any of the school programs didn't look for government aid. Once you accept that money you must adhere to the government guidelines and as long as you are dependent on those funds you become a welfare case and a burden on the rest of the society.

Although Dr. Aun's book may have been appropriate for it's time (sorry don't have copy with me to see the date it was published) but I believe some of the data is WAY out of date.

I might be in the minority on this, however I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if you didn't write for this paper. You're not on the editorial but you writings are "full of it" .... opinions too.

Perhaps if you have this free time on your hands you could visit the places mentioned above during their active times and then write about your experiences as "getting back into the Estonian society" ...... I never left.

I wonder why anyone would either encourage Peter Bush to write or solicit articles from him for Estonian Life. This self-confessed former "drop out" from Estonian society hasn't done his homework to find out what the state of affairs in the community is today. To rely on Karl Aun's book is laughable. Bush's condescension is tedious and boring.

The author referred to Karl Aun's book ONCE in this article, what's wrong with that? Are writers not to refer to anything that wasn't written recently? Was what was written incorrect? Lighten up people. You may not like what Mr. Bush has to say but hammering him over the head for making ONE reference to Aun's book is laughable.

IMO Estonian society outside of Estonia is dying, it's only a matter of time. This is just my opinion but it would be naive to think that I'm alone in thinking this. Nothing lasts forever, get over it. If this thought bothers some of you so much than why don't you consider moving to Estonia instead of critisizing people who drop out of "Estonian" society.

Peeter Bushi läkitused Eesti Elule on äratanud tähelepanu ja reaksioone nagu kass tuvide hulgas. Tõenäosusega tema omamoodi väljendusstiil, vahest juhitud teemadele mis mitmed ei soovi käsitleda, on mitmele nagu häireks. Siiski ta juttul on sisu mida ei saa niisama kõrvale lükata.

I for one enjoy PB and his writing. From an outsiders perspective, he is provocative (as seen by the number of emails both for and against his views). What is really interesting, is not so much that he is stating the obvious, (that for the most part esto societies outside estonia are shriking/changing), but the strong negative reaction to the stating of these obvious facts, by a few individuals.
I think few serious observers can doubt that esto societies outside estonia are not what they once were. Probably more people of estonian heritage born in the post-war generation are either completely gone or only at the far fringes of esto society compared than are strongly involved. This is only natural as the"need" for the esto connection (which was very strong in the first generation immigrants is lessened in later generations. This is not to say that esto society in Canada will die. I think it has a lot of life left in it, and it is adapting (at least in the Southern Ontario) area, reasonably well.
But to cry 'traitor' every time one points this out is silly. Perhaps reaching out those (perhaps the majority) of those of estonian heritage who are no longer involved, will make some difference. Many of them may no longer care, but some might still respond.
So I say to PB, keep writing and prodding, it is refreshing to see some controvery.

I agree...lighten up, people! I welcome Peter's comments. It's about time people started debating about where we are as a community and our future. We could use more feedback, in whatever language.

In Canada, we could also use more direction from a central organization, most likely the Estonian Central Council in Canada. It would be useful to figure out where we go from here. We should look at everything from the difficulties facing the Estonian language schools to whether there is anything useful we can offer English speaking Estonians. We need a public forum to do this.

Of course it's refreshing to receive advice and comments from those who view the esto community from a different perspective. But the commentator should be well informed. Even dilettantes have the right to have their day in the court of public discourse. But what a waste of time for the reader.

Eedu Apa, you need to chill out! I went back and re-read PB's article to see if you and I read the same article. PB does not suggest that we look for government money for our schools. In fact, he notes that it makes sense to fund language schools ourselves, if we are able to do so.

And are you any more aware of the situation with our schools than PB? He is not far off the mark. I am actively involved with the Toronto one and I can tell you that it is challenged in many areas, from school funding to the increasing decline in the students' ability to communicate in Estonian.

Read PB's article first and get your facts straight, before you start attacking him. Your commentary comes across as more of a personal attack.

And it wouldn't hurt to re-read what you write before you send it off...there were many grammatical errors as well as problems with sentence structure that make reading your comments difficult.

Chill Out,

I know EA and yes he and his family are very active in the Estonian School programme (not to mention several other "Estonian" organizations). And have been for nearly 5 decades.

I've been reading (and re-reading) not only PB articles but the electronic comments about those articles. Regardless of EA's grammer and having missed PB point in asking the ESTONIAN government for aid in funding the Estonian Schools in Canada I agree with his (and the others who have posted) assesment of PB .... he is a self avowed "drop-out" of the Estonian community almost 30 years ago (see previous articles) and should seriously consider asking the editorial board to perhaps find alternative writers.

I guess I read my friends comment closer than you, he never said the schools aren't without their problems. But were do YOU think the current funding comes from, you seem to be as befuddled as PB (the funding comes from the parents, Siht Kapital, funds willed etc almost 100% self-funded).

As EA mentioned or didn't you understand his comment "Culture/heritage/language is only reinforced in a structured program aka school but it is in the home that one gets the daily practice that endures through out time"

I understood that to mean that if you don't practice Estonian at home (like PB children practiced French and Latvian) well of course there will be problems with communicating in Estonian School. Or are you one these people that think that going to Estonian school for 3 hours and a couple weeks at Jôekääru is all that is needed to ensure a child speaks Estonian. I agree it is difficult if one parent is not Estonian, but it is up to the Estonian parent to practice Estonian with their otherwise the child will have difficulties.

Perhaps my friend is taking his review of the article too personally, but I suggest that you re-read all of PB articles and the e-post reviews. IMHO, EA doesn't seem to be far off the mark with his criticism's. There also seems to be others that feel the same way. Some even allude that PB comes across "anti" Estonian. The best joke is that he has to remind the readers of Hr. Laas Leivat's position

"Honorary Consul General of Estonia and a heavy weight member of the expartriate Estonian Canadian society"

What is with PB's comment of "and a heavy weight member of the expartriate Estonian Canadian society"?????

Just because PB has been out of the loop for the last few decades doesn't mean we are (he probably thinks there are two Estonian papers in Toronto). He probably even doesn't know that the NY paper Vaba Eesti Sôna has had an English section in it for nearly 15 years.

Everyone is entitled to their own viewpoints, but please CH & PB you need to get your facts straight too!

I agree with some of of the opinions expressed on government funding for schools and multiculturalism but we are taxpayers too and since Canada is a democracy we should also receive some of that tax money to fund the education of our children. Every time I pay my school tax I see the 2 boxes where I am given a choice of funding the English or French School Boards. These 2 ethnic groups seem to receive all of this money for their schools and are reluctant to share it with those whose ancestors are not from England or France.

The EKN was also mentioned in these comments and I think that it is a near useless organization. It does nothing but promote eestlus as a part-time hobby for people who still see themselves as exiles. We need to either reform the EKN into an organization for Estonian-speaking Canadians, or start another group that is more relevant in this day and age.

Thank you, Peter! Though I don't agree with everything you say, I do agree that EKN needs to be reformed or replaced. Question for everyone: so what do we do about it?

Here we go with the 'blame-game' again. Let's move past that. The situation is that we have both Estonian speaking and non-Estonian speaking Estos in our midst. Are you going to have the same attitude with the children of the Peters of this world, children who perhaps want to learn Estonian and do the 'Estonian thing'? Being hostile toward their parents is not going to help anything, it will drive them further away. This hostility is wasted energy.

George Orwell identified the writer's duty as confronting unpleasant truths. Peeter Bush has done just that in Eesti Elu and, so, has annoyed or upset many readers. Indisputably, he has been provokative with his blunt references to some of our orthodoxies which, under a spotlight, appear dated and contrived.
There's plenty with which to respond to Peeter Bush's commentary. It doesn't lie in an emotional rejection of facts which are difficult to dispute and unpleasant to face. Rather, it lies in a sober assessment of our lives as Estonians in Canada, an appraisal of our assets and opportunities, and commitments of effort and money.
It's seems too obvious to be worth stating, nonetheless, it needs to be said to undermine the prevailing fallacy that we can be Estonians, in more than name only, without knowing the language. If you care about your Estonian identity, learn the language. Read Eesti Elu (not just the English part and the death condolences.) Vacation in Estonia (as often as possible.) Listen to Eestraadio over the internet (Klassikaraadio and Vikerraadio are second to none for quality of music, informed commentary and interviews with with people who speak inebriatingly-mellifluous Estonian.) In the initial stages, it's difficult. In response, I can only say that the best choices are rarely the easiest.
As we lose our facility with the language, there's less to differentiate us from from groups such as (let's say) the Rotary Club. One difference will always remain -- Rotarians, and the like, don't congregate to reinforce self-deceptions about their identity.

Vacationing in Estonia, listening to Estonian radio, reading Eesti Elu ... those are all wonderful things. I find it interesting though that you left out the most obvious - if you really care about your Estonian identity then one option is to move to Estonia.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that this is something that anyone SHOULD do, it is rather something that anyone COULD do. It is a choice, an option. It's also not as radical a choice as some may think, many have made this choice and are now happily living in Estonia.

IMHO the Estonian community outside of Estonia is dying a slow death. If you consider for example the percentage of Eesti Elu suscribers or Estonian Credit Union clients that are over the age of 70 the implications are unavoidable. The Estonian community say 50 years from now will probably not be quite dead yet but it will be much different from what it is today and perhaps not very different from groups such as the Rotary Club. I believe that this is not cause for panic, it's just the way it is. I'm more concerned about the future of Estonia as a country, to me that's what is really important. If the future of Estonia is bright then I don't really care much about what the future of "Estonianism" outside of Estonia is.

This is my personal opinion only, feel free to flame away.

I think you may have misunderstood. I could be wrong but I didn't get the feeling that EstoKannuk was playing "the blame-game". It sounded to me like he/she was totally sincere in asking for Peters' ideas.

EstoKannuk is also bang on regarding Esto organizations and volunteers. The reality is that volunteering for Esto organizations is not very high on the list of priorities for most people and this is only going to get worse with time. Can you imagine what the situation will be 50 years from now?

Face the facts, 50 years from now the Esto community in Canada or anywhere else outside of Estonia for that matter will be nothing like it is today.

...try 10 years from now. A good number of the people to whom we dutifully speak Estonian are now in their 70's and 80's. These are the people who escaped in their teens from Estonia and are the driving force behind our organizations. Many of them will be dead within 10 years.

‘George Orwell’ had good points about language being key. I’d like to add to his list, if I may:
- If you speak Estonian, endeavour to have a whole conversation in Estonian with Estonian speaking friends. There seems to be an unwritten code that we have to toss in English words and phrases ‘to belong’, which is silly. If we get stuck for words, others will help out, especially if you tell them that you are trying to improve your Estonian. That’s how we learn.

- Libraries. There are two good sources in Toronto. One is a spanking-new library out of the Tartu College office in Toronto, started by Prof. Tiina Kirss and financed by patron Elmar Tampõld. They have brought a load of brand-new books from Estonia. Fiction and non-fiction. Some are quite interesting, including '100 Eesti Sajandi Suurkuju', which is a coffee-table book with history, pictures and quotes by famous Estonians from the last century. The library is open during the day on Tuesdays and Fridays.

For Torontonians: don’t forget the Toronto Public Library. They have updated their website and made it very user-friendly. You can call up all the Estonian books in the system by putting in EST, the first three letters for the code for Estonian books, in the appropriate search window. Not only do they have the classics, but also books written in more modern times. Take advantage of their free book shuttle-service, the library will deliver the book to your nearest library for free.

- Buy books. Since people have become comfortable with buying on the Internet, check out ‘www.raamatukoi.ee’ to order more current books. They have a wide selection and the prices are fair.

- Non-Estonian speakers in Toronto can take advangage of Estonian language courses offered through Piret Komi and Tiia Remmelkoor at the Estonian House (hopefully they are still offering the courses, I haven't read anything about them recently)

Thanks for your comment. The last paragraph especially - I feel exactly the same way.

Making EKN the whipping boy has been the favourite pastime of many of those who don't have the gumption to join the organizations they say need reform. Many people, young and old, have given of their free time, energy and even personal resources to establish and develop the infrastructure necessary to maintain our community. Go to an EKN meeting. Visit their office. Talk to the members. It's the only cross-Canada, elected organization going. They'd be glad to hear you.

No point in arguing with someone who uses the word radical three times in one paragraph, just say "nice doggie" as you back out of the room.

I applaud Laas Leivat, Priit Aruvald and others for keeping EKN going, along with Avo Kittask, who has recently taken the reins as President. Avo has tried to renew EKN the best way he and a core group of active Estonians know how (bravo for the new office on the ground floor of the Toronto Estonian House, it’s a much more accessible location).

But viewing EKN as ‘the whipping boy’ is an easy way of not dealing with the criticism leveled against EKN over the years. The organization’s heart is in the right place, but it has not evolved along with the needs of the community. Volunteers are hard to come by, if they are not excited about their work. I think those volunteers would come out of the woodwork if EKN took the plunge and researched what it is that Estonians want from the central organization and then acted upon that research.

My gut feeling is that EKN needs to shift from being less of a political animal to being a unifying force for all Estonians, including non-Estonian speakers, by championing the importance of language and putting in place promotional programs for this purpose, for both these groups.

For EKN to find out what people want, it would have to ask them. This can take several forms: a comprehensive questionnaire with tough questions would be one way; large discussion groups would be another (I would ask Estonian societies in Canadian cities to hold discussion groups as to what kind of support they need and how EKN could help).

The other point I would like to make is that we know that there are ethnic organizations that are thriving: the Ukrainians, Jews and Italians are just some groups that have effective core organizations serving their respective communities. I think members of EKN should sit down with reps from these other communities, tell them that we are trying to revitalize our central organization and ask them what makes their organizations successful. That means really listening to what they say and then committing to making some tough changes.

Effective communication has been a real challenge for EKN, which in it self prevents EKN from finding new volunteers (again, EKN needs to find out how other ethnic groups are communicating effectively). What about Avo Kittask having a short column every two months in Eesti Elu in both English and Estonian? The column doesn’t have to be an activity report every time, it could also be a vehicle to ask the public its viewpoint on certain issues. Create inexpensive posters to get your message across, especially to let people know that you need volunteers. Part of effective communication is getting your message out early, which doesn’t seem to be the case with EKN’s search for volunteers to become elected board members.

And I’m sorry, those once-a-year donation drive letters thinly veiled as community updates aren’t effective communication tools. They come across as hurriedly written correspondence sent out before tax season deadlines. I would be more inclined to read something written 'with guts' in a newsletter format. The TEÜ did that and I took note.

What's the point of discussing the life or death of Estonian society and language in English?

Kes või mis on "estod"??

I do not claim to be authoritative on issues "north of the border," but I rise to the defense of a fellow writer. I think Peeter Bush's writing is excellent and needed. This does not mean that I agree with everything he says. I would not want to subscribe to a paper that I know is totally identical with my views. The best writing is provocative, because it makes the reader think. I commend him for "returning" to the fold, albeit with views that may not be "conventional." So what? We all, whether in Canada or the U.S., need to take a fresh look at ourselves and seek new ways of preserving our heritage. Do not push away people like Peeter, give them a chance.

One more thing. The only reason I entered this discussion in the first place was to stick up for the author as in my opinion the attacks directed toward him in the first few comments were not called for and certainly were not what I would call constructive criticism.

I would also add that the idea of Avo Kittask (or anyone else representing EKN) writing for the paper from time to time is a good one. I don't even know what EKN does and I'm probably not the only one. It was mentioned that EKN has problems finding volunteers, perhaps if people were better informed as to what they do they might be more inclined to volunteer assuming they find their work worthwhile.