KESKUS is looking for additional funds from Estonia
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
1  2  >
lugeja15 May 2024 08:31
Suhteline vaesus on Eestis rekord tasemel, võrreldes Eesti rahvaga on Kadalased rikkad ja nüüd me lähme nendelt raha kerjama et oma suurhullustust kinni maskta?

Suur tükk ajab suu lõhki, häbi võiks olla.
Õ15 May 2024 11:04
As much as it pains me to say this, but KESKUS will go down in history as the biggest financial boondoggle of our community ...
Cong. Member15 May 2024 11:49
And this dear readers, is why a certain group wants to sell Peetri Kirik. They simply cannot accept that there is NO bankruptcy for the church, and that things are moving along nicely for the congregation. If you want to build the Keskus, go for it! BUT, don't ride on the coattails of our forefathers who built the church, and don't lust after the money from a sale. OR, is it a tax break that you are looking for should the congregation move into the Keskus? Something to think about.
Einstein17 May 2024 14:31
The (unelected) gaggle running SP is still riding the coattails of the previous council’s hard work. Though it appears that road is quickly coming to an end Stay tuned…
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03), Virtuoso (06:51), Notice (06:51)
lugeja nr.215 May 2024 12:17
Tundub, et Veiko Parming ei ole end kurssi viinud Eesti praeguse olukorraga. Piisaks sellestki, et oma Eesti reisi ajal teha TV lahti ja vaadata uudiseid või lugeda mõnda ajalehte. Alles täna kirjutati, et vajalik on külmutada pesionid. Eesti rahvas ja riik on kordades vaesem, kui Keskuse projekti vedajad. Kas nad tõesti aru ei saa, et praegu, kus suur enamus rahvast elab vaesuse piiril, on väga ebasobik minna raha küsima?
someone15 May 2024 13:22
Needs to learn the definition of "entrepreneur" and "beggar".
The truth rears its ugly head15 May 2024 12:49
This Keskus project has divided the Estonian Toronto community. Many organizations that depended on the Estonian House at 958 Broadview Ave. have now had to fend for themselves to exist. Only the Northern Birch Credit Union has been able to maintain and grow their sustainability by creating a branch at a Bloor Street address, a branch at the Latvian Center and a third branch in Hamilton. Now that this over-budgeted, overhyped Keskus project is finally going to meet its overdue demise, curious what the cost will be to repave the parking lot and how much can we expect from the sale of that Tibetan monk's heritage site which the credit union purchased by mistake (not realizing that they could not conduct business in a residential zone) beside the Keskus money-pit. Igal lollil oma lõbu.
lugeja nr.215 May 2024 14:47
Soovitan vaadata Aktuaalset kaamerat esimesed 3,5 min.
https://etv.err.ee/1609334534/...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja nr.2 (12:17)
McDuck15 May 2024 15:03
Not worried in the slightest. Keskus is a beacon for estos everywhere. A celebration of achievement. A symbol of our bright future. Estonian entrepreneurs are among the most well respected, accomplished, intelligent, and visionary in the world. Funding will be a non issue. Sad how the ignorant, simpleton minority continues to sling mud and do what they can to destroy our community. All because a handful of folks didn’t get their way. They know not what they do I guess.
Cong. Member15 May 2024 15:11
If funding is a non-issue, then why does the first sentence in this article say "The KESKUS project does not have enough money to complete the construction...."
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Cong. Member (11:49)
Tv15 May 2024 16:04
Ma arvan Keskuse juhatuse liikmed pole kunagi oma àri ajanud. Raha lugeda ei oska. Mòisakòis las lohiseb...
Kilplased.
To Someone15 May 2024 17:19
What entrepreneurs would go into the Keskus, what are we selling? Shares? Stocks? Rental space? Or are we selling shares of Estonian startups, which are all online. Don’t get it, could someone explain rhis to me?

Better yet, just pay the 20 million needed to get the bloody thing up!

Or, just use the older historic red building for activities. That would make sense. And bring back that parking lot, so we can at least park somewhere! And make some money while you’re at it!
Virtuoso16 May 2024 06:51
As our friend stated, entrepreneurs are visionaries. Many want to be a part of something. A bright symbol of the future. Most educated, normal people share such lofty aspirations, instead of hanging on to decaying relics of the past like most folks who post here.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03)
Rahvuslane15 May 2024 18:06
Ta elab vist keldris ema isa majas. Peale mobla ja creditkaardi pole kàes midagi hoidnud. Heaolu riik...
eesti asi16 May 2024 07:08
Eestis võiks kehtestada KESKUS-e maksu. Siis saaks klaasmaja ümber ehitada funktsionaalseks.
Northern Esto16 May 2024 19:34
So much could have been done with the money instead of wasting it on this white elephant. Hopefully the KESKUS cult will admit defeat soon and leave our community in disgrace. At least they were not able to get their hands on our church.
Notice17 May 2024 06:51
Clear to me that this person is a russian troll. Hoping the editor can blacklist this user immediately!! Leeave us alone and go back to Moscow.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03), Virtuoso (06:51)
to: Northen Estonian18 May 2024 11:16
You are absolutely correct about spending on something else. The proceeds from the sale of the 19th century schoolhouse and adjacent houses could have already been used to build and rehab the Latvian Centre.

It has a great location. Plenty of free parking. Ellington LRT close by which would be a short ride to Peetri Kirik or to Ehtare & Eesti Kodu.

But how could such a facility be financially supported? EM showed that lost money most years due to declining revenues.

The same had occurred with Vana Andres congregation. Has anyone seen what the new congregation has accomplished?

The Latvian Centre financial difficulties were highlighted in an OMNI TV program.

The Finnish House sold for similar reasons. This was very close to Main Street subway station.

So where would have been the best location to move to?

A very important question that the naysayers haven’t brought up is how to financially support such an undertaking in the GTA?
To northern esto16 May 2024 20:20
Its not over. They have not given up on the church, they need the money from the sale.
Oh Einstein,17 May 2024 19:19
you’re not. But you are calling the kettle black- and being a bully. Like EKN was elected? Just stop belittling people.
Northern Esto18 May 2024 06:00
To Notice, I can assure you that I am totally Canadian, totally Estonian and totally against the KESKUS. We don't need Russian trolls to cause division in our community when we have the hole in the ground on Madison.
Sobitaja18 May 2024 08:11
Keskuse "aju usaldus" (ehk "brain trust") võiks teha reklaami Tallinna Linnahalli treppide peal seistes: "Me tahame sellist monumendi eestlusele ehitada ka välismaal! Meil juba vähemalt poole vajaliku raha kokku kerjatud! Liituge meiega, et üleilmne eestkus saaks õndsaks ja meiesugused tähtsaks! Teie see ju nii väikene, valuvaba, tühja raha annetus puhuks meid nii suureks et teiste imede ees polekski enam vaja kukkardada!
To Friend of EH18 May 2024 17:15
So dear person, if according to you, none of these places were sustainable, over time how could the glass house with no parking and a huge what $20 million? debt be sustainable? Why are we saddling our youth with this?

So ironic, can still see the smug faces of the supporters of the glass house saying that the old EH was not sustainable, and needed - at least 1 million dollars!!- to redo it! Would that not have been money well spent?

But the real problem with our community is the lack of transparency and - sociopaths with good intentions telling the rest of us what should be done- because they know! Are any of the glass house donors questioning where their money went? Shouldn’t they be? Will they ever tell us- or does the quest for the next $4 million keep going?

Saddest part- there was no Call for Submissions! I’m sure people could have submitted amazing plans- but wait- Lembit Tork did! That could have been built by now at the EH location!! And it would not have cost $40 million. Hey, even the glass and wood from Eesti would have arrived by now, with no subway construction needed. It would have been a jewel!

Are yall saying most of that $30- 40 million has gone underground? And the useable space would be..?

I’m shocked by the pride? narcissism? of these people. And by the sheep following them.

So, for around $60 million the Indian Space Program sent a rocket to the moon. I guess we could have done that as well- mine kuu peale! next project for our illustrious leaders! Any takers?
Super majority18 May 2024 19:11
Blah blah blah..be gone with you useless peasant. We are the future not you!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03), Virtuoso (06:51), Notice (06:51), Einstein (14:31)
To blah blah blah18 May 2024 19:34
Another point, I agree with you- we are all peasants. Matsirahvas. Maamatsid. Kus on Matsilaud- suggested donation- $5. Stepping up as the peasant I am. Peasant and proud!
Hey Visionary!20 May 2024 17:31
Entrepreneurs start companies and run businesses. Is the Keskus not a cultural centre? It will be hard to break even running it- you need to book solid to pay back the loans. But what money, ROI, can entrepreneurs expect on investments from outside Canada? My name name on a plaque?
Aristotle20 May 2024 18:52
I always find it amusing when the anti-keskus crowd talks about running businesses. Many of them yes, did run businesses…into the ground. The rest have lived on government assistance and preached from the sidelines for decades. Such an entertaining bunch they are.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03), Virtuoso (06:51), Notice (06:51), Einstein (14:31), Super majority (19:11)
to: Hey Visionary!27 May 2024 11:59
Could you please provide your information source(s) for the loans?

Such as who holds these loans, interest rates, amounts, and periods.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to: Tv (13:37), to: Tv (07:52)
to: Hey Visionary!01 Jun 2024 09:05
Could you please post the info on the loans that you mentioned previously?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to: Tv (12:35)
Tv21 May 2024 10:26
Aristotle on jumala eksiteel. Keskuse juhtkond on ilma firma omanike kogemustega. Mitta Keskuse vastased... Iga firma omanik voi endine omanik saab aru, et Keskus on nagu monster , mis valmis ei saa!!!!
to: Tv22 May 2024 10:27
So whom at Keskus is without “business experience” in your opinion?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to: Northen Estonian (11:16)
To Northern22 May 2024 11:26
Who is busines experience??? Hallo...
to: Tv22 May 2024 13:37
Kes siis Keskuses on teie arvates ärikogemuseta?
Tv22 May 2024 14:57
Kirjutage ùks nimi, kellel juhatusest on olnud oma firma vòi on olnud CEO.... ,firma boardis.lòpetagem. See on nagu vene ajal kòik istuvad " piruka" juures.
to: Tv23 May 2024 07:52
The Toronto Estonian community owes our undying gratitude for informing us of your knowledge and business acumen. Many thanks for sharing your unrequested critique of the volunteer boards of Keskus. How silly that these individuals didn't come to you before they volunteered.

If you review the list of donors you will note that there are business owners and several C-suite level decision makers. Are you saying that you are more knowledgeable than they are?

Unbeknownst to you dear critic, these volunteer boards are also in cahoots with others who have the business acumen that you require. The uniqueness of these individuals is that they too are volunteers.

This response might irk you, but you really should have done more research about the "requirements" to run such an undertaking.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to: Tv (13:37)
Tv23 May 2024 10:25
Alati kui on raha màngus voib olla vabatahtlikke juhtkonnas. Midagi saab panna "vasakule" jàlgi segades. Olgu see Ĵòekààru juhtkonnas vòi Tartu College-s, keegi ei korista ega tee sùua vabatahtlikult....
Raamatupidamist saab muuta uue systeemi vòi hard drive muutmisega!! See on nii lihtne.
From a juhatus24 May 2024 13:22
What a sad, angry little man you are. Kahju et sul elus mingit armastust ei ole. Kalli kalli sulle.
Truth (part two)23 May 2024 12:18
On April 25, 2017 a vote was conducted at the Estonian House whether or not to sell the community home. Of the 3207 votes counted Pro 2148 (66.9%)
Contra 1059 (33.1%)
The block votes which voted for PRO totalled 1407 (43.8%). The block votes included:
Toronto Estonian Credit Union 714
Estonian Federation of Canada 129
Estonian Scouts 192
Kungla Folkdancers 140
Estonian Guides 77
Estonian Council of Canada 40
Total 1407
If you subtract the block votes represented by 7 individuals who in many cases did not consult with their members regarding the vote, the answer is 2148-1407= 741. So basically the popular individual CONTRA votes of 1059 outweighed the 741 Pro votes. In truth, the block voting skewed the voting results favouring the sales of the Estonian House. There was no recount ever taken and there has never been any investigation into suspected voting irregularities. Is there any wonder that the Toronto Estonian community is split over the vote taken on April 25th, 2017. The anti Keskus group is not a minority, but in fact a majority.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: The truth rears its ugly head (12:49)
Real majority spokesperson24 May 2024 13:17
Oh boy here we go again….let me set you straight one more time…The vote was conducted in accordance of the bylaws of the Estonian House Corporation. Just bc you lost does not mean there was fraud. 7 years on and you people still cry about this. Get over it..move on already. And please, lay off the breitbart.
Spare us26 May 2024 07:15
Pathetic irony that the anti-church mob is using the same argument to overturn the democratically made decisions of the St Peter’s congregation.
Truth (part 3)23 May 2024 12:25
Toronto Estonian Men's Choir 115
also voted as a block PRO vote to sell the Estonian House. Please add these numbers to the previous posting.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: The truth rears its ugly head (12:49), Truth (part two) (12:18)
Apropos business23 May 2024 14:04
“Eesti ettevõtlus - selle juured ja tulemused” ("Estonian entrepreneurship - its roots and results") was the topic of a 2024 lecture by U of T business prof and longtime advisor Mihkel Tombak (oddly not well attended in person or VEMU online). Did anyone learn anything about the “Keskus” project (by any of its names before and after the sudden vote to sell EH in 2017)? If he didn’t advise the purchase of the Madison Ave building just north of U of T, for example, which could then not be used due to zoning regulations (sitting empty for years after the purchase), could he not advise against it? Is anyone accepting responsibility for mistakes? Do we know who is making decisions? Should we look perhaps at volunteers receiving various public awards - an interesting way to reverse-message?

A lot of unexpected things have happened. Expect the unexpected? A “told you so”, from people with experience. What has been learned?
Your neighbor24 May 2024 15:49
Nothing sudden about the vote sweetheart. Had been discussed for YEARS. The fact that you only got involved at the end does not change that. You’re welcome.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: From a juhatus (13:22)
Onu Sam26 May 2024 12:39
Juhtatus vòib nàgutada palju soovib.
Kui raha ei ole àra ehita. Ùle oma varju ei hùppa. Mùùge project maha ja asi korras
Onu Sam26 May 2024 12:43
Juhtatus vòib nàgutada palju soovib.
Kui raha ei ole àra ehita. Ùle oma varju ei hùppa. Mùùge project maha ja asi korras
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Onu Sam (12:39)
to: Tv28 May 2024 12:35
talk about a probable Russian Troll. Your post indicates that you have never been to any of the places you mentioned. Nothing but volunteers at JK or KJ. There are some at TC too.
lugeja nr. 229 May 2024 19:41
On huvitav, et mitte kunagi ei ole mainitud, et Keskuse projekteerimisele oleks korraldatud konkurss. On ju reegel, et korraldatakse konkurss, kus siis laekunud töödest valitakse välja kõige sobilikum.
Eestlane on põhjamaine privaatne rahvas. Läbipaistvad klaasseinad ei ole eestlasele iseloomulik.
Eesti kaardi kuju võib ju tunduda vaimukas, aga kuidas seda näha? Kas Keskuse juhtkond hakkab korraldama Keskuse kohal helikopteri tuure ja seletama mitte-eestlastele, milline on Eesti maakaart ja selle kontuurid?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja nr.2 (12:17), lugeja nr.2 (14:47)
Doing your own research is key30 May 2024 07:06
This entire project is about the following things: well- designed PROPAGANDA to support the Madison Project known as Keskus ; MOST Toronto Esto community members NOT bothering to delve deeply into ALL aspects of the project ( do their own research) and just blindly trusting the lead & leaders and, of course, a mentality where a type of "peer pressure" is exerted by project supporters, so others feel that they MUST go along with it ( or at least not question or criticize ) in order to maintain their status within the community.
All of these, coupled with the APPEARANCE (keyword being "Appearance") of DEMOCRACY, is how this project got pushed through. Project Leaders pre-determined what outcome they wanted ( A new EH near Tartu), then "worked backwards" to make sure that this pre-determined outcome ( simply put , a " shiny new esto house" on the MOST EXPENSIVE SITE you could build on)would appear to be chosen democratically.
Remember, that prior to the vote to sell Estonian House , shareholders were told if the $18 million did NOT cover the cost of the new project , ESTONIAN HOUSE WOULD NOT BE SOLD. They did not bother to mention that the full sale price, whatever it was, would NOT got go entirely to building the project, because the property was sold as a package with Sihtkapital houses and that money would be taken off the top. In fact, a lot of what the project leaders failed/fail to mention is far more SIGNIFICANT to COST, TIME DELAY and FUNCTIONALITY issues than what they DO say. There were NO articles explaining all THE RISK that the project had to take on, to satisfy for example, the TTC. These agreements would have made anyone question the project. Couldn't have that. Another example of how things don't get mentioned OR when they are ; they are cleverly disguised as a "good thing ." REMEMBER>>> The 4 Orgs promised "SEED MONEY" of $ 1 mil each. Seed money is a loan...funny how now this loan is calculated as part of the donations. What of the ESTO HOUSE money ...is that considered a donation too now ?
Interesting, that Ellen V. never returns to that $ 18 mil. statement. She does do a lot of talking though , and depending on what group she is talking to the "facts" seem to change. Again, only those people who closely , ( do their research )would know. Talk is cheap anyway. Just think if this whole project was your personal property....would you allow it to spiral out of control like this ?
Guess she does not want to remind anyone there was not even a call for submissions from all of our great esto architects. Of course not, because any architect needed to be in agreement with the pre-set agenda. Imagine what could have been done at the Esto house site. No years of time delays due to TTC requirements, before getting a full building permit.( OR, do they even have a FULL permit yet ? You know if they did photos of the posted building permit would be all over the paper and web pages. At the time, knowledgable ( in other words those few who did their research ) people quietly predicted that the project, would cost AT LEAST $50 million (more by now). This is due to the site's proximity to subway and LRT lines. I highly doubt that the project team themselves (since the due diligence, sorry to say, was a joke)even fathomed what exhorbitant costs and delays dealing with this inappropriate site would cause. NOT TO MENTION AGAIN,THE ACTUAL RESTRICTIONS THAT THIS SITE PUT ON THE PROJECT ITSELF.
BTW, another thing that is never mentioned are all the neighbouring properties where high-rise condos are going up, over-shadowing the glass box and Tartu. Oh yes, and that reminds me of VEMU. They have been trying to raise funds to build VEMU for years. Does it make any sense to go on with the glass box when you can't even raise enough for VEMU ?
WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE ...TAKING THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY INTO MEGA -DEBT IN ORDER TO SAVE FACE AND SELLING EVERY ASSET TO BUILD THIS UNSUSTAINABLE , GLASS BOX ? Seems that way.
Very sad. I vote for joining the LATVIANS at the LATVIAN CENTRE. Since , the credit union is already there , let's do the prudent thing before squandering the budget of a small to medium country on a white elephant at a time when Ukraine is at war for all of the Baltics.
Vlad30 May 2024 08:06
Sheesh..what a pontificating windbag.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: McDuck (15:03), Virtuoso (06:51), Notice (06:51), Einstein (14:31), Super majority (19:11), Aristotle (18:52)
DIY30 May 2024 14:05
“Overshadowing” TC or overtaking? In what scenarios might demolition be the future of Tartu College?
http://omnitecturalforum.com/c...

The Concourse Building WAS a 16-storey Art Deco building in Toronto's financial district:
http://omnitecturalforum.com/c...

“Briefly: of the degrees and types of Preservation as defined by ICOMOS --Preservation, Period Restoration, Rehabilitation, Period Reconstruction and Redevelopment-- none match[ed] Oxford's plan. Technically Oxford [was] planning a Demolition.”

Expensive TC recent retrofits notwithstanding. Useful underground work.

Case in point: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/...

Apropos “Another thing that is never mentioned are all the neighbouring properties where high-rise condos are going up, over-shadowing the glass box and Tartu.”
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Apropos business (14:04)
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.
SÜNDMUSED LÄHIAJAL

Vaata veel ...

Lisa uus sündmus