Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Destroy the legacy? I think you've got it backwards, my friend! By transfering the lands to a seperate entity ensures that their original intended purpose (use of the lands for Estonians in Canada) is maintained! It seems to me that doing so will allow non-Estonians to join ESHA, while removing any future possibility of the common lands being used (sold) for anyone else's gain other than Estonian society! You make it sound like you think you're going to lose out on any future profits for yourself!
The ESHA Pohikiri/Constitution says, "Membership is open to holders of property within the area of the Jõekääru farm." Or in Estonian it says, Liikmeteks võivad olla Jõekaaru talu maaaladel olevate kruntide pidajad." Nowhere does it say in any founding documents that a member must be Estonian, all it says is you must own property in Joekaaru and pay the annual fee to be a member.
To divide the community along racial lines is discriminatory, and does not reflect the values Canadians and those living in Estonia hold dear.
To divide the community along racial lines is discriminatory, and does not reflect the values Canadians and those living in Estonia hold dear.
Wait a minute....isn't that exactly what they want to do? That is, make membership open to all propertyowners?
So what is the problem with protecting the lands? From what I read, that's the logical thing to do:
Move to keep ownership of the lands (and hence the legacy you speak of) within the Estonian society while opening membership to all.
So what is the problem with protecting the lands? From what I read, that's the logical thing to do:
Move to keep ownership of the lands (and hence the legacy you speak of) within the Estonian society while opening membership to all.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Pikk Jalg (10:19)
Protecting the parkland is my goal. As the arrangement stands now, the camp cannot sell land without joeakaaru property owners' approval, and vice versa. Moving to keep ownership of the parklands lands into an "auxiliary organization" controlled only by Estonians nearly guarantees portions of land will be sold to raise capital for the camp. If you attend the Sept. 27 meeting to discuss the future of Joekaaru, please ask the ESHA trustees and president why when they, together with JSS executives, were contemplating a future when the "auxiliary organization" is reality they discussed subdividing and selling land on Umera and the Estonian Rd. with the goal of using the proceeds for capital improvements intended for the camp on other community parkland . ESHA directors are very nearly in the dark about this sort of talk, while the membership is completely ignorant of it. Keep in mind property owners, Estonian or otherwise, DO NOT WANT TO SEE FURTHER LAND DEVELOPMENT. There are creative ways to protect the land for Estonians, while avoiding the creation of a two class community, where some folks have privileges and "Canadians" or non-Estonians do not.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Erik Tanner responds (10:34)
You leave me no choice but to comment on your own ignorant claims and dispel the truth to our fellow readers. I speak here as an individual, representing my own views, not as a member of Joekaaru Suvekodu Selts, of which I am a directing member.
It should be made known that Tonu Naelapea has been contacted with requests to pull your article on the premise that you claim to be sharing the facts, while the truth is, that you are propagating your own views, for your own interests, and these my dear neighbour are lies. Your thoughts might have been better received as an “Opinion” column or perhaps in the comics section. Though, for the Estonians who are knowledgeable about the workings of ESHA and JSS, and who all share a positive interest in preserving and improving our cultural grounds, you have already established yourself as a laughable character.
Tonu Naelapea, if you are reading this (which one would hope you are as the English Editor of the paper), I ask you to reflect on your past decisions in publishing these false accusations against ESHA and JJS. In publishing information that Erik Tanner considers to be factual, one is encouraged to do a background/fact check first and consider that the author is speaking through a very tainted and selfish lens. I hope that in the future, Eesti Elu will re-establish its journalistic integrity and refuse to publish slander, which can be detrimental to all parties involved.
I urge any individuals who are concerned about the material that you have read (mostly lies) from Erik Tanner, to please contact Joekaaru Suvekodu Selts and ESHA directly with your concerns. As both organizations are volunteer-based, their time is spent more effectively planning and working for the greater good of our Estonian Community than as to reply publicly to false accusations and offensive claims. Moreover, Joekaaru as a community and summer camp was built on the foundation of people working together for a greater good, not by sole individuals looking to tear organizations apart.
It should be made known that Tonu Naelapea has been contacted with requests to pull your article on the premise that you claim to be sharing the facts, while the truth is, that you are propagating your own views, for your own interests, and these my dear neighbour are lies. Your thoughts might have been better received as an “Opinion” column or perhaps in the comics section. Though, for the Estonians who are knowledgeable about the workings of ESHA and JSS, and who all share a positive interest in preserving and improving our cultural grounds, you have already established yourself as a laughable character.
Tonu Naelapea, if you are reading this (which one would hope you are as the English Editor of the paper), I ask you to reflect on your past decisions in publishing these false accusations against ESHA and JJS. In publishing information that Erik Tanner considers to be factual, one is encouraged to do a background/fact check first and consider that the author is speaking through a very tainted and selfish lens. I hope that in the future, Eesti Elu will re-establish its journalistic integrity and refuse to publish slander, which can be detrimental to all parties involved.
I urge any individuals who are concerned about the material that you have read (mostly lies) from Erik Tanner, to please contact Joekaaru Suvekodu Selts and ESHA directly with your concerns. As both organizations are volunteer-based, their time is spent more effectively planning and working for the greater good of our Estonian Community than as to reply publicly to false accusations and offensive claims. Moreover, Joekaaru as a community and summer camp was built on the foundation of people working together for a greater good, not by sole individuals looking to tear organizations apart.
If you could specify the "lies," that would be appreciated. But I understand you are a busy person and unable to share them with readers.
My interest is seeing the creation of a Joekaaru community that is not divided by race and where the parklands are protected from any group or persons seeking to benefit from them financially.
My interest is seeing the creation of a Joekaaru community that is not divided by race and where the parklands are protected from any group or persons seeking to benefit from them financially.
I am busy, yes...working towards a solution, rather than creating conflict.
I am working towards the betterment of the camp and putting programs and policies in to place to ensure that the future generations of our community have a positive summer experience, that INCLUDES all of the beautiful parklands which you speak of. What are you doing towards this solution besides creating unnecessary controversy?
Lies? I would think that misrepresenting your fellow Board members, using personal quotes out of context and sharing false intentions on behalf of organizations which you are NOT a part of, would constitute as lies...no?
I am working towards the betterment of the camp and putting programs and policies in to place to ensure that the future generations of our community have a positive summer experience, that INCLUDES all of the beautiful parklands which you speak of. What are you doing towards this solution besides creating unnecessary controversy?
Lies? I would think that misrepresenting your fellow Board members, using personal quotes out of context and sharing false intentions on behalf of organizations which you are NOT a part of, would constitute as lies...no?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Lia Kaljurand (13:47)
...this site has very few readers anyway. The newspaper lost its integrity al very long time ago.
Erik, what is discriminatory or divisive about maintaining Jõekääru as an Estonian community? I fail to see how there is any discrimination against Canadians since last time I checked my papers, I am a Canadian too since I was born in Canada. This country was founded from the very beginning by hyphenated Canadians, English and French and I am no less a Canadian if I speak Estonian rather than English.
I have heard no complaints at all from any of the English at Jõekääru who suffer from such horrible discrimination according to some of the comments made here. These people admire our culture and have made a choice to spend their summers at Jõekääru. They are welcome to learn our language and culture and take a greater role in the preservation of this beautiful Estonian-Canadian community.
I have heard no complaints at all from any of the English at Jõekääru who suffer from such horrible discrimination according to some of the comments made here. These people admire our culture and have made a choice to spend their summers at Jõekääru. They are welcome to learn our language and culture and take a greater role in the preservation of this beautiful Estonian-Canadian community.
Lia -
Specifically, what are Eric's lies?
Specifically, what are Eric's lies?
You sir, on the other hand have too much time on your hands and you are doing everything in your power to destroy our community! Find somewhere else to suck blood, and stay out of the way of people who have escaped communism and have had to adjust to a new way of life, only to find that sharks and sharlatans took the last morsels left on the table. What a pathetic attempt at dressing sleaziness for charity.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Blöhh (09:52)
The legacy of the founders of Joekaaru was to help create a self-perpetuating Estonian speaking community in Ontario.
There are people who believe that we should give up on Estonian because not everyone speaks it, sort of like the southern USA bible thumper who thinks that if the English language was good enough for his Lord and Saviour then it should be good enough for all of them thar foreigners too...
I suppose I like being Estonian in Toronto because I get to live in a big metropolis but maintain active membership in what amounts to a small village community in its midst -- complete with more than its "chare" (hey blohh !) of village idiots.
There are people who believe that we should give up on Estonian because not everyone speaks it, sort of like the southern USA bible thumper who thinks that if the English language was good enough for his Lord and Saviour then it should be good enough for all of them thar foreigners too...
I suppose I like being Estonian in Toronto because I get to live in a big metropolis but maintain active membership in what amounts to a small village community in its midst -- complete with more than its "chare" (hey blohh !) of village idiots.
I think the Estonian community in Canada is facing one of its biggest challenges to date, apart from the fact that they are also about to sell Estonian House. These sorts of moves run counter to the interests we should be promoting to the health and benefit of our community. It is incredible that the Estonian community is allowing itself to be browbeaten into forteiting their cultural heartlands so that someone can make a huge profit from it all and the call it quits. This is potentially a disaster of the same proportions that Hermann Simm brought about to the complete and utter detriment of everything we have stood for these past 60 years. Treason is written all over everyone that gets their grubby hands caught up with this proposal. Shame on you all. Traitors!
It's shameful, but I just can't stop myself when Maxim de la Trine shows up to display his wit and his wisdom.
No, I don't agree with this comment.
Mr. Tanner has written 2 articles on this matter now. I have read both and I understand the frustrations but I am still confused with the validity of Mr. Tanner's. In the first article he states from a neutral position of the future possibility that non-Estonian owners would comprise a majority of the ESHA membership and of the fear that the lands would be sold for personal profit by the non-Estonians in the future.
Now in this article, and by his above comment, he makes a statement that the new auxiliary organization (which will be comprised of Estonians) will take over the lands and sell them for profit. Yet in the first article, he wrote that at their last AGM, ESHA informed it's membership of the legalities and that the auxiliary organization was to help transfer the ownership or administration to the Children's Camp.
In the first article Tanner mentioned that the non-Estonians were treated as second class and states here that non-Estonian members are racially discriminated against. But he also states in his first article that the non-Estonian residents have said they would leave and sell their property should ESHA transfer the lands to a new group. It sounds like they are happy with their situation and with ESHA....why, if the non-Estonians were being "discrminated" against by the ESHA....would they want to leave if ESHA were no longer running the property?
I'm sorry for pointing this out, but I'm left very confused. I'm not a member or a property owner. But I would be very confused if I were one.
Mr. Tanner has written 2 articles on this matter now. I have read both and I understand the frustrations but I am still confused with the validity of Mr. Tanner's. In the first article he states from a neutral position of the future possibility that non-Estonian owners would comprise a majority of the ESHA membership and of the fear that the lands would be sold for personal profit by the non-Estonians in the future.
Now in this article, and by his above comment, he makes a statement that the new auxiliary organization (which will be comprised of Estonians) will take over the lands and sell them for profit. Yet in the first article, he wrote that at their last AGM, ESHA informed it's membership of the legalities and that the auxiliary organization was to help transfer the ownership or administration to the Children's Camp.
In the first article Tanner mentioned that the non-Estonians were treated as second class and states here that non-Estonian members are racially discriminated against. But he also states in his first article that the non-Estonian residents have said they would leave and sell their property should ESHA transfer the lands to a new group. It sounds like they are happy with their situation and with ESHA....why, if the non-Estonians were being "discrminated" against by the ESHA....would they want to leave if ESHA were no longer running the property?
I'm sorry for pointing this out, but I'm left very confused. I'm not a member or a property owner. But I would be very confused if I were one.
You are reading everything out of context! "Selling th Estonian House for profit"... for goodness sakes!!! If you don't know the facts, don't write! The Estonian house is in bad physical shape and a new building is being sought, whether on the same property or at a new location. The NEW Estonian house will be an improvement. You make it sound like our community is crumbling. It is NOT and I suspect the same regarding the false panic that is being created by articles (or opinions as Lia says) such as this.
This is a clear and well thought out critique. There is no doubt that direct control by stakeholders who actually live there will best ensure the continued health of this envoronment.
Why isn't the newspaper sending a reporter out to get to the bottom of this explosive issue? It's sitting here on a platter, and you people just sit there staring at your navals, squeezing out the occasional poorly written opnion piece dressed up as a news article.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Don't Worry... (08:05)
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