Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Eesti ühiskond Kanadas ja Torontos on üles ehitatud sadade ja tuhandete eestlaste vabatahtliku tööjôuga ja paljude vabatahtliku majandusliku panusega siinsele eesti ühiskonnale. Paljud on seda isikliku majandusliku riskiga teinud. Tundub uskumatuna, et üks meie ühiskonna liige nüüd ahnitseb omale nende pingutuste kaudu loodud varandusest veerand miljonit dollarit! Selle kohta ei oska öelda midagi muud kui: häbi häbi ja häbi!!
You should feel ashamed to be writing this against an Estonian who was terminated WITHOUT CAUSE!.
We do not know the whole story so we should not judge either side.
You should be pleading with the EAK to settle this dispute and SAVE the donated funds and focus on running Ehatare.
The only people who will win anything are lawyers via their fees..
Money down the drain.for nothing.
There are many seniors who live at Ehatare and they are happy living there... but those same people were shocked at the termination of a popular long term employee.
One should not have to choose sides here. Whatever the reason for the termination - it is NOT worth the legal defense using donated money to fight it.
Habi teile... for even asking an Estonian that was dismissed without cause, who is requesting some sort of explanation or justice to just walk away.
EAK should just walk away from this fight and say "sorry"
EAK could make us all proud and admit to a politically incorrect defense.
We do not know the whole story so we should not judge either side.
You should be pleading with the EAK to settle this dispute and SAVE the donated funds and focus on running Ehatare.
The only people who will win anything are lawyers via their fees..
Money down the drain.for nothing.
There are many seniors who live at Ehatare and they are happy living there... but those same people were shocked at the termination of a popular long term employee.
One should not have to choose sides here. Whatever the reason for the termination - it is NOT worth the legal defense using donated money to fight it.
Habi teile... for even asking an Estonian that was dismissed without cause, who is requesting some sort of explanation or justice to just walk away.
EAK should just walk away from this fight and say "sorry"
EAK could make us all proud and admit to a politically incorrect defense.
You should feel ashamed to be writing this against an Estonian who was terminated WITHOUT CAUSE!.
We do not know the whole story so we should not judge either side.
You should be pleading with the EAK to settle this dispute and SAVE the donated funds and focus on running Ehatare.
The only people who will win anything are lawyers via their fees..
Money down the drain.for nothing.
There are many seniors who live at Ehatare and they are happy living there... but those same people were shocked at the termination of a popular long term employee.
One should not have to choose sides here. Whatever the reason for the termination - it is NOT worth the legal defense using donated money to fight it.
Habi teile... for even asking an Estonian that was dismissed without cause, who is requesting some sort of explanation or justice to just walk away.
EAK should just walk away from this fight and say "sorry"
EAK could make us all proud and admit to a politically incorrect defense.
We do not know the whole story so we should not judge either side.
You should be pleading with the EAK to settle this dispute and SAVE the donated funds and focus on running Ehatare.
The only people who will win anything are lawyers via their fees..
Money down the drain.for nothing.
There are many seniors who live at Ehatare and they are happy living there... but those same people were shocked at the termination of a popular long term employee.
One should not have to choose sides here. Whatever the reason for the termination - it is NOT worth the legal defense using donated money to fight it.
Habi teile... for even asking an Estonian that was dismissed without cause, who is requesting some sort of explanation or justice to just walk away.
EAK should just walk away from this fight and say "sorry"
EAK could make us all proud and admit to a politically incorrect defense.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ingrid Tanner (17:41)
The terms "with cause" and "without cause" are legal terms.
Before mouthing off, you should investigate the distinction.
Before mouthing off, you should investigate the distinction.
Ok... I looked it up... and I believe you are not very aware of reality.
I have directly heard from a board member that the employee was terminated without cause. Ok.. the person was not a lawyer... In other words the employee was not terminated because they did something wrong.. the employer just wanted to terminate the person.
Thus, how was my use or words incorrect. Please check your facts on the issue.
on the other hand while looking up the definition "without cause" the employer must give the employee enough notice and/or compensation.
This employee had no notice... and thus is entitled to compensation.
I have directly heard from a board member that the employee was terminated without cause. Ok.. the person was not a lawyer... In other words the employee was not terminated because they did something wrong.. the employer just wanted to terminate the person.
Thus, how was my use or words incorrect. Please check your facts on the issue.
on the other hand while looking up the definition "without cause" the employer must give the employee enough notice and/or compensation.
This employee had no notice... and thus is entitled to compensation.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ingrid Tanner (17:41), Ingrid Tanner (18:06)
Had you bothered to attend the 'special meeting', you'd know that the former employee was offered a compensation package exceeding what the law proscribes.
It was rejected!
It was rejected!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Ingrid Tanner (19:32)
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Kompliment, härra Purje,
asjaliku referaadi ja sisuka kommentaari eest!
asjaliku referaadi ja sisuka kommentaari eest!
Eerik on tore mees, aga ta EAK kokkuvõte jätab mulje, et oli rahulik ja tavaline koosolek. Minul jäi hoopis teine järeldus kui vaatasin samast koosolekust tehtud videot...
http://www.eesti.ca/index.php?...
http://www.eesti.ca/index.php?...
Veel parem!
http://www.eestielu.ca/et/arva...
http://www.eestielu.ca/et/arva...
The past year has been brutal as people have been taking sides on an employment issue. Why intelligent folks would want to take sides without being apprised of the facts is puzzling? Remember here that the facts have by not been divulged by both sides. Hence, why judge? Given the confidentiality surrounding employment issues, let the employer and employee sort this out. Employment is all about doing a job, as required by an employer. It's not about Facebook pages and petition sites, which make the whole thing look tawdry. Much like a dance competition on television where viewers phone in their preferences?!?
I understand your frustration with the lack of “openess” at Ehatare, Mr. Meiusi. Having heard rumours that you seldom visit your aunt, who resides there, I attempted to get records of your visits over the last 4 years.
I expected to have these rumours overturned by examing records that might have shown you actually did visit your aunt on her birthdays and holidays.
Well, you know what, Mr. Meiusi? They don’t share that data!
I expected to have these rumours overturned by examing records that might have shown you actually did visit your aunt on her birthdays and holidays.
Well, you know what, Mr. Meiusi? They don’t share that data!
Actually my kids and I visit her on her birthdays and the holidays, but then this accusation is so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant a response. I guess if I don't know who you are it's hard to understand how you gain access to my visitation records.
Funny that you can gain access to visitation records when we can't even gain access to records of what was presented to EAK members.
Funny that you can gain access to visitation records when we can't even gain access to records of what was presented to EAK members.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Allan Meiusi (17:25)
It might come as a surprise to you that visitors to Ehatare sign-in. The book is located at the receptionist's desk.
I'll check to see if your name appears there on your aunt's recent birthday. For some reason, I doubt it!
For your information, we had a nice little ceremony for her.
I'll check to see if your name appears there on your aunt's recent birthday. For some reason, I doubt it!
For your information, we had a nice little ceremony for her.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Ingrid Tanner (19:32), to - Ingrid Tanner: the dunce (16:45), Dear Diogenes (12:50)
I'd say "hi" to you when I visit my aunt but since I don't know who you are....it's kind of difficult. But yes it was a nice ceremony that Ehatare ("we") held for my aunt on her birthday. But since my aunt's birthday was on a school day, my kids and I went after school.
And yes.... the sign-up sheet is there at the front desk. I sign it while I say "Hi" to Tiiu at her desk and hello to the residents who are sitting by the front door.or in the lobby. But since you know so much about my visiting habits, you probably know that already.
And yes.... the sign-up sheet is there at the front desk. I sign it while I say "Hi" to Tiiu at her desk and hello to the residents who are sitting by the front door.or in the lobby. But since you know so much about my visiting habits, you probably know that already.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Allan Meiusi (17:25), Allan Meiusi (10:38)
A grave error that may end up costing Ehatare a lot of money was made by last year’s Eesti Abistamiskomitee EAK board of directors. A long time worker was fired against the wishes of Ehatare’s residents. This kind of decision should not be made lightly as there are government granted employee rights against unjust termination of employment. Whether you agree with these government rules or not, every competent directorship should consider them carefully before acting. More knowledgeable or more reasonable people than Ehatare’s board went to last year’s EAK general meeting to express their concerns. The directors were congratulated for their past work as it appeared that until then Ehatare life flowed smoothly but even more praise was lavished on the fired employee. The support she had from the speakers’ loved ones in Ehatare was repeatedly confirmed. The attendees encouraged the board to avoid bad feelings and legal problems and follow the expressed wishes of Ehatare residents by rethinking their poor decision. Negotiation between board and employee involving a professional mediator was strongly recommended. The board was absolutely inflexible on this issue and seemed incensed their judgment was being questioned. The head director Dr. Leesment directed those dissatisfied with his board’s decision to become members and run for director at next year’s meeting. When people took him up on it, he was clearly very angry, calling them and their supporters “enemies” of Ehatare. What a bizarre term for well meaning people with family and friends in Ehatare! Dr. Leesment apparently confuses himself and his interests with those of Ehatare but there was no enmity to either. Opposing opinions and justified criticism are not enmity.
This year’s EAK election turned out to be a farce. The board leaned on a highly paid non-Estonian-speaking lawyer present throughout to declare “Not legally required” when standard meeting procedures were requested. It transpired that the board had amassed enough proxy votes for itself (rumor had it from the Baptist congregation) that the members present at the meeting were outvoted. It was a set up. The proxy givers were misled in that they had no knowledge of an alternate slate of candidates or their qualifications that were more impressive than many of the board’s candidates because the board presented only its own desired slate except on the spot at the meeting. The election process was therefore morally skivvy. Presumably the directors received expensive legal advice on how best to retain their positions (minimal 10 day window for nominations, written notices of elections to existing members only, proxies solicited with incomplete disclosure of candidates etc.). But who paid for this legal advice that returned members to the board who may cost Ehatare up to $250,000 for their poor decision and stubbornness? That seems a large sum of money but since the fired worker was only 5 or 6 years from retirement with a stellar record, it’s a standard request, lost earnings plus $50,000 in damages. A knowledgeable and prudent board would not have risked Ehatare’s money in such a way. Let’s be clear about who created this financial problem and refused to try to solve it amicably out of court, then engineered their own return to decision-making power. Were they really the better alternative when they prevented many members from knowing there actually was an alternative?
In closing I regret having to use a pseudonym, but my relatives/friends at Ehatare are as hostages. It is conceivable that they could suffer for my words, considering the shenanigans this board of directors has already pulled. For example, is everyone aware that the entire Ööbik choir is banned from performing at Ehatare because their conductor is the above-mentioned fired employee and some of its members agreed the firing was inadvisable? That's right, they're not allowed to sing to their own loved ones in Ehatare. There was a petition with hundreds of signatures asking for reversal of the firing. Are all the signers barred from performing at Ehatare? Why the discrimination?
This year’s EAK election turned out to be a farce. The board leaned on a highly paid non-Estonian-speaking lawyer present throughout to declare “Not legally required” when standard meeting procedures were requested. It transpired that the board had amassed enough proxy votes for itself (rumor had it from the Baptist congregation) that the members present at the meeting were outvoted. It was a set up. The proxy givers were misled in that they had no knowledge of an alternate slate of candidates or their qualifications that were more impressive than many of the board’s candidates because the board presented only its own desired slate except on the spot at the meeting. The election process was therefore morally skivvy. Presumably the directors received expensive legal advice on how best to retain their positions (minimal 10 day window for nominations, written notices of elections to existing members only, proxies solicited with incomplete disclosure of candidates etc.). But who paid for this legal advice that returned members to the board who may cost Ehatare up to $250,000 for their poor decision and stubbornness? That seems a large sum of money but since the fired worker was only 5 or 6 years from retirement with a stellar record, it’s a standard request, lost earnings plus $50,000 in damages. A knowledgeable and prudent board would not have risked Ehatare’s money in such a way. Let’s be clear about who created this financial problem and refused to try to solve it amicably out of court, then engineered their own return to decision-making power. Were they really the better alternative when they prevented many members from knowing there actually was an alternative?
In closing I regret having to use a pseudonym, but my relatives/friends at Ehatare are as hostages. It is conceivable that they could suffer for my words, considering the shenanigans this board of directors has already pulled. For example, is everyone aware that the entire Ööbik choir is banned from performing at Ehatare because their conductor is the above-mentioned fired employee and some of its members agreed the firing was inadvisable? That's right, they're not allowed to sing to their own loved ones in Ehatare. There was a petition with hundreds of signatures asking for reversal of the firing. Are all the signers barred from performing at Ehatare? Why the discrimination?
The employee in question was not a model employee - nor was she stellar. She caused so many problems and hardships amongst the staff and residents. There are always some who like her - but there are plenty who do not like her, nor miss her, nor want or care if she comes back. According to her, she was a model employee - according to her records, she was not. It was certainly more than a clashing of styles with her supervisor. She did not know how to take direction - bottom line - she was the employee and resented having to listen to a supervisor. She does have a lot of friends outside of Ehatare - and that is where the problem lies. Who are we to tell Ehatare who to hire? Why didn't she take the package that was extended to her when she huffed off the premises? Why is she and her lawyer so willing to litigate?
With a parent in Ehatare, you can well understand that I follow activities there very closely. On one occasion, I had reason to register a complaint. It was resolved promptly.
I also visit regularly and I can report, with certitude, that I have never seen Allan Meiusi or any of the alternative candidates for the Board on the premises.
The long-time worker, that you refer to, was not fired against the wishes of Ehatare’s residents. In fact, it came as an abrupt shock after the employee posted a written notice to the residents announcing that she would no longer fulfill some of her duties.
The employee was terminated and offered a severance package exceeding the standard. She responded with a lawsuit demanding a fabulous sum.
We all know that the employee is a part-time amateur choir director and barroom crooner. Her fans were encouraged to spend $10 to join the EAK and show the Administrator her proper place. Many did. In the end, however, the children of residents outnumbered the fans. Don't blame this on the detestable Baptists congregation.
For the readers' information -- the Baptists visit Ehatare every year on Christmas Day, in force, to sing and lift spirits. Be certain that Meiusi, Marta and the alternate slate of candidates have never witnessed that!
By convention, parties to a lawsuit avoid each other. That's why Ööbik will be welcomed at Ehatare after the matter is resolved; beforehand, no one is denied visiting rights to loved ones in Ehatare.
The petitions are as phony as a three dollar bill. The one circulated among Ehatare residents was signed by more than 100%, as some signed twice. When the resident Karl Vaikla signed, he thought that he was signing a "Good bye and good luck" card.
I also visit regularly and I can report, with certitude, that I have never seen Allan Meiusi or any of the alternative candidates for the Board on the premises.
The long-time worker, that you refer to, was not fired against the wishes of Ehatare’s residents. In fact, it came as an abrupt shock after the employee posted a written notice to the residents announcing that she would no longer fulfill some of her duties.
The employee was terminated and offered a severance package exceeding the standard. She responded with a lawsuit demanding a fabulous sum.
We all know that the employee is a part-time amateur choir director and barroom crooner. Her fans were encouraged to spend $10 to join the EAK and show the Administrator her proper place. Many did. In the end, however, the children of residents outnumbered the fans. Don't blame this on the detestable Baptists congregation.
For the readers' information -- the Baptists visit Ehatare every year on Christmas Day, in force, to sing and lift spirits. Be certain that Meiusi, Marta and the alternate slate of candidates have never witnessed that!
By convention, parties to a lawsuit avoid each other. That's why Ööbik will be welcomed at Ehatare after the matter is resolved; beforehand, no one is denied visiting rights to loved ones in Ehatare.
The petitions are as phony as a three dollar bill. The one circulated among Ehatare residents was signed by more than 100%, as some signed twice. When the resident Karl Vaikla signed, he thought that he was signing a "Good bye and good luck" card.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Ingrid Tanner (19:32), to - Ingrid Tanner: the dunce (16:45)
Viga mis võib Ehatarele kõvasti maksma minna tehti aasta tagasi Eestiabistamiskomitee EAK juhatuse poolt. Vallandati kaua aegset töölist vastu Ehatare elanikkude tahtmist. Siin maal ei tohi niisugust tegu kergemeelselt ette võtta kuna töölistel on valitsuse poolt kinnitatud õigused. Kas nõustakse valitsuse reeglitega või ei, iga kompetentne juhatus peaks nendega arvestama. Teadlikumad vöi mõistlikumad inimesed läksid selle tõttu eelmise aasta EAK peakoosolekule oma muredega. Avaldati kiitust juhatusele nende töö eest kuna sinnamaani tundus Ehatare elu sujuvalt liikuvat aga veel rohkem kiideti vallandatud töölise oskusi ning kinnitati temale poolehoidu sõnavõtjate omakestelt kes elasid parajasti Ehatares. Soovitati juhatusele paha meelt ja legaalseid probleeme vältida ning Ehatare elanikkonna tahtmist teha oma halvale otsusele järele mõeldes. Tehti ettepanek läbirääkimisi pidada professionaalse vahendaja juhendamisel. Juhatus oli absoluutselt ebapaendlik selle koha pealt ja trotsi täis. Pea direktor dr. Leesment käskis neid kes polnud juhatuse otsusega rahul endid liikmeiks võtta ja järgmise aasta koosolekul juhatuseliikmeteks kandideerida. Kui seda tehti, siis oli ta ilmselt pahane, nimetades väljaspoolt juhatuse kandidaate ja nende toetajaid Ehatare "vaenlasteks". Kummaline nimetus heatahtlikutele inimestele kellel omal sugulased/tuttavad Ehatare elanikkude hulgas! Dr. Leesment vist segab ennast ja enda huvid Ehatare huvidega aga keegi pole kummagi vastu vaenulik. Teine arvamine ja õigustatud kriitika pole vaenlus.
Tänavu aastane koosolek oli ilmselt farss. Juhatus najatas pidevalt körge kuludega palgatud mitte eestikeele valdavale advokaadile kes andis korduvalt kohapeal nõu "not legally required" kui tavalist koosoleku reeglite rakendamist paluti. Selgus, et endine juhatus oli küllalt volitus hääli omale kokku ajanud (räägiti peamiselt Baptisti koguduselt), et kohaletulnud rahval polnud võimalust midagi vasta juhatuse tahtmist muuta. Inglisekeeles kutsutakse seda "a set up". Kes andsid oma volituse polnud üldsegi teadlikud teistest kandidaatidest ega nende kvalifikatsioonidest mis olid paljudest juhatuse liikmetest hiilgavamad kuna juhatus esitas ainult nende enda kandidaate. See oli moraalne sohk. Arvatavasti, juhatus sai head nõu nende palgatud advokaadilt kuidas oma kohti pidada. Aga kes maksis selle kalli nõu eest mis pidas samad isikud edasi kes lähevad Ehatarele võimalikult kuni $250,000 maksma oma paha otsuse ja trotsi pärast? Summa tundub suur, aga kuna vallandatud tööline oli 5 või 6 aastat erru minekust ja kuldse töö saavutustega, see on standard nõudmine, kaotatud palk ja $50,000 kahjutasu. Mõistlik ja ettenägelik juhatus poleks Ehatare rahasi niimoodi riskeerinud. Oleme selged, kes tegelikult tekitasid selle rahalise probleemi ja keeldusid seda sõbralikult väljaspool kallist kohtuprotsessi lahendamast.
Mul on kahju, et pean varjunime kasutama, aga mu sugulased/tuttavad kes elavad Ehatares on nagu pantvangid. Pole mõeldamatu, et nemad võivad kuidagi minu sõnade pärast kannatada, arvestades milliste viguritega juhatuse liikmed on juba hakkama saanud. Peale ülal toodud, kas kõik on teadlikud, et Ööbiku kooril on Ehatares esinemine keelatud kuna nende juhataja on see vallandatud tööline? Kui mõned kooriliikmed rääkisid eraisikutena EAK koosolekul nende Ehatares asuva pereliikmete huvides, seda pandi juhatuse poolt pahaks ja nüüd on tervel kooril isegi laulmine omakestele Ehatares keelatud…kelle korraldusel?
Tänavu aastane koosolek oli ilmselt farss. Juhatus najatas pidevalt körge kuludega palgatud mitte eestikeele valdavale advokaadile kes andis korduvalt kohapeal nõu "not legally required" kui tavalist koosoleku reeglite rakendamist paluti. Selgus, et endine juhatus oli küllalt volitus hääli omale kokku ajanud (räägiti peamiselt Baptisti koguduselt), et kohaletulnud rahval polnud võimalust midagi vasta juhatuse tahtmist muuta. Inglisekeeles kutsutakse seda "a set up". Kes andsid oma volituse polnud üldsegi teadlikud teistest kandidaatidest ega nende kvalifikatsioonidest mis olid paljudest juhatuse liikmetest hiilgavamad kuna juhatus esitas ainult nende enda kandidaate. See oli moraalne sohk. Arvatavasti, juhatus sai head nõu nende palgatud advokaadilt kuidas oma kohti pidada. Aga kes maksis selle kalli nõu eest mis pidas samad isikud edasi kes lähevad Ehatarele võimalikult kuni $250,000 maksma oma paha otsuse ja trotsi pärast? Summa tundub suur, aga kuna vallandatud tööline oli 5 või 6 aastat erru minekust ja kuldse töö saavutustega, see on standard nõudmine, kaotatud palk ja $50,000 kahjutasu. Mõistlik ja ettenägelik juhatus poleks Ehatare rahasi niimoodi riskeerinud. Oleme selged, kes tegelikult tekitasid selle rahalise probleemi ja keeldusid seda sõbralikult väljaspool kallist kohtuprotsessi lahendamast.
Mul on kahju, et pean varjunime kasutama, aga mu sugulased/tuttavad kes elavad Ehatares on nagu pantvangid. Pole mõeldamatu, et nemad võivad kuidagi minu sõnade pärast kannatada, arvestades milliste viguritega juhatuse liikmed on juba hakkama saanud. Peale ülal toodud, kas kõik on teadlikud, et Ööbiku kooril on Ehatares esinemine keelatud kuna nende juhataja on see vallandatud tööline? Kui mõned kooriliikmed rääkisid eraisikutena EAK koosolekul nende Ehatares asuva pereliikmete huvides, seda pandi juhatuse poolt pahaks ja nüüd on tervel kooril isegi laulmine omakestele Ehatares keelatud…kelle korraldusel?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Diogenes (09:29)
I can't believe that Ööbik has been banned from Ehatare. Are you serious??? What hope is there of holding off a continuing demise in petty prejudices that now seem to have taken a sudden foothold with the rise of very narrow-minded special interest group arising within the ranks of the leadership of our Toronto community who only see dollars rolling before their eyes? Its pitiful and pathetic.
Vallandatud töötaja nõuab veerandit milli ja vallandatud töötaja sõbrad tahavad lisaks veel ka juhatust üle võtta, samal ajal toetades miljoninõudeid sellesama organisatsiooni vastu mida nad omast arust juhtida tahavad ? Irvitama ajab.
I have a feeling that there are two issues being dealt with.
One issue is that a wonderful person to her friends can also be a difficult employee in the work world. An employee needs to take direction and if this is not done, then this is a detriment to the organization and the person should be fired. Her friends should consider this fact. Did the board handle the dismissal properly? I am sure that this has been a learning curve for them and looking back they wish that they had done things differently.
The other is the issue of whether the board could be a more crack team running the Ehatare ship. People have a hard time letting go of power positions. We now have people who would like to be a part of this team. From Vaado Sarapuu’s interviews done with Dr. Leesment and with Mr. Meiusi (excellent coverage, by the way, we need more such reporting in our community), I can’t help but feel that some stagnation is taking place and that the time has come to let people eager to bear the brunt have a chance. I find Allan Meiusi’s responses here to the EWR articles to be quit credible and the anonymous attacks (such as a person combing through a guestbook) quite petty.
We should be looking at all our major organizations more closely...are they measuring up? Do they need a shake-up? Sometimes leaders who are in positions for a very, very long time start taking short cuts and liberties. A changing of the guard safeguards against that. Something to think about.
One issue is that a wonderful person to her friends can also be a difficult employee in the work world. An employee needs to take direction and if this is not done, then this is a detriment to the organization and the person should be fired. Her friends should consider this fact. Did the board handle the dismissal properly? I am sure that this has been a learning curve for them and looking back they wish that they had done things differently.
The other is the issue of whether the board could be a more crack team running the Ehatare ship. People have a hard time letting go of power positions. We now have people who would like to be a part of this team. From Vaado Sarapuu’s interviews done with Dr. Leesment and with Mr. Meiusi (excellent coverage, by the way, we need more such reporting in our community), I can’t help but feel that some stagnation is taking place and that the time has come to let people eager to bear the brunt have a chance. I find Allan Meiusi’s responses here to the EWR articles to be quit credible and the anonymous attacks (such as a person combing through a guestbook) quite petty.
We should be looking at all our major organizations more closely...are they measuring up? Do they need a shake-up? Sometimes leaders who are in positions for a very, very long time start taking short cuts and liberties. A changing of the guard safeguards against that. Something to think about.
Amazing how some people in this community just cannot control themselves - or more specifically, their mouths.
The fired employee is completely within her rights to seek remedy within our court system. An impartial justice will decide whether this claim has any merit. And that's that.
The people on this bulletin board seem to forget that we're dealing with a small community. This behaviour (on both sides) is, in the long term, destructive and unhelpful in sustaining our little community. Maybe an arbitrator could be used in the future to diffuse similar situations rather than a public forum. Unfortunately, this web bulletin board is unhelpful in this regard, as the editors seem to relish in churning up community muck - from the churches to this. One has to wonder which organization will be targeted next for slander and destruction. Regardless, a worrying pattern has emerged.
The fired employee is completely within her rights to seek remedy within our court system. An impartial justice will decide whether this claim has any merit. And that's that.
The people on this bulletin board seem to forget that we're dealing with a small community. This behaviour (on both sides) is, in the long term, destructive and unhelpful in sustaining our little community. Maybe an arbitrator could be used in the future to diffuse similar situations rather than a public forum. Unfortunately, this web bulletin board is unhelpful in this regard, as the editors seem to relish in churning up community muck - from the churches to this. One has to wonder which organization will be targeted next for slander and destruction. Regardless, a worrying pattern has emerged.
Jah, see on kindlasti EWR ja EE viga, et kõik need asjad juhtuvad, kirikutest alates ja EAK lõpetades. Kui ainult ajakirjanikud nagu Purje ja Sarapuu ei teeks artikleid ja intervjuusid, siis oleks jälle kõik ilus ja korra järgi. Juhatused oma tarkuses teavad mis on vaja teha, kui ainult need ühiskonna liikmeid oma suu ometi kinni hoiaksid ... LOL
Küsimus ei seisa Purje ega Sarapuu tegevuse taga. Põhjus on see, et juhtivate inimeste hulka on üles astunud inimesed kelle rahaline huvi ületab igasuguse rahvusliku huvi! Kui juba vastutavad inimesed huvituvad pigem majanduslikest tingimustest siis paraku on see torpeedo lahustamaks ja lõhkumaks meie ühised ühiskondlikud väärtused. Eestlus on varsti mõttetu sõna millele ei leia mingisugused huvid mis pärinevad meie esiisade vaevast nägemaks järeltulijate rahvusuhkus. Kui juba kõik toimub inglise keeles ja juhtkond sellest enam ei hooli siis on selgemast selgem, et aega ei ole jäänud palju enne kui Eesti värk kaotab igasuguse mõte siin maal.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Max (13:05)
My own view is that a fatal mistake was made a year ago following the termination. Discretion should dictate how both parties behave. There's a wonderful idiom in Estonian - "asjad kella kulge panema". Perhaps best translated as "attaching a bell to things". Friends and family built petition sites, announcing to the world that the employee had been terminated. Then, e-mails from close friends and family went viral. I was being forwarded e-mails that surely weren't intended to have as wide a distribution as they did. These e-mails referred to over throwing the Board, etc. This is really troubling. Why an employer should take into account the number of names on a petition is baffling? This is not how a responsible employer makes decisions re hiring and firing. Come on, let's exercise discretion. While family and friends are there to support the terminated employee, there are ways of doing this that are appropriate and those that are totally inappropriate.
Our community has never seen anything like this before and, I hope, never again; but, it's not over yet!
This issue exploded for coincidental reasons. The terminated employee is popular.
She also has an energetic activist working her cause: a busy-body famous for her grudges and, in this instance, a grudge against the Chairman that goes back about ten years.
I doubt that there's anyone in the City that hasn't already been numbed by her "Juhtub!" story. She should go to Church and pray for the ability to forgive those who have trespassed against her.
Meiusi seems to have a lot of free time on his hands. Is he unemployed? He's come to the verdict that Ehatare is guilty of something very serious and he's been very busy trying to discover what it might be.
He's emerged as the leader of the "alternate slate" which tried to stage a coup at the recent AGM. Marching behind him, figuratively, is Ingrid Tanner who we've never seen; although we know, from her from written comments, that she's ignorant and an incoherent hysteric. Another candidate, who never bothered to appear, based her candidature on some ambiguous academic experience. Yet another candidate ran for the Board, even though she wasn't a member of the ERC! If elected, she promised to send in her $10 "next week".
Mrs. Migur looked like a plausible candidate. Before voting for her, however, I'd like to know whether or not she believes all that hatred and b.s. that flew around on Facebook.
Those of us with a parent in Ehatare are understandably reluctant to turn the management of Ehatare over to kooks and hysterics with no detectable mission, apart from sticking it to Leesment and Ruth.
This issue exploded for coincidental reasons. The terminated employee is popular.
She also has an energetic activist working her cause: a busy-body famous for her grudges and, in this instance, a grudge against the Chairman that goes back about ten years.
I doubt that there's anyone in the City that hasn't already been numbed by her "Juhtub!" story. She should go to Church and pray for the ability to forgive those who have trespassed against her.
Meiusi seems to have a lot of free time on his hands. Is he unemployed? He's come to the verdict that Ehatare is guilty of something very serious and he's been very busy trying to discover what it might be.
He's emerged as the leader of the "alternate slate" which tried to stage a coup at the recent AGM. Marching behind him, figuratively, is Ingrid Tanner who we've never seen; although we know, from her from written comments, that she's ignorant and an incoherent hysteric. Another candidate, who never bothered to appear, based her candidature on some ambiguous academic experience. Yet another candidate ran for the Board, even though she wasn't a member of the ERC! If elected, she promised to send in her $10 "next week".
Mrs. Migur looked like a plausible candidate. Before voting for her, however, I'd like to know whether or not she believes all that hatred and b.s. that flew around on Facebook.
Those of us with a parent in Ehatare are understandably reluctant to turn the management of Ehatare over to kooks and hysterics with no detectable mission, apart from sticking it to Leesment and Ruth.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to - Ingrid Tanner (19:32), to - Ingrid Tanner: the dunce (16:45), Dear Diogenes (12:50), Dear Allan Meiusi (13:11)
I apologize in advance responding to some of these comments as late as I have but I was busy taking care of some client requirements. I wanted to take a moment to respond to what some people could consider are fairly vexatious comments about myself and some EAK members who ran for the Board. To answer one of the comments regarding my employment status, I just wanted to say that yes I work for an internet applications company. Among other things, we have our own VoIP application (Voice Over Internet Protocal). The IP part is especially fitting to note here because this news source and this particular comment section are fundamentally internet based applications as well. Associated with VoIP, in the case of my company's applications, are IP addresses. Like a street address, IP addresses serve a purpose to identify the location of a source/ transmission of data. Wonder how Google search always knows to get you the best results closest to your house or region? Well as part of their search algorythm they capture the IP address of your router or computer to give you the most appropriate results based on geographic characteristics they have in their database tables. As soon as you are searching they have captured your IP address. So as you can imagine when I see comments like the ones written by the person under the alias "to Ehatare Watcher", "to - Ingrid Tanner", "to - Ingrid Tanner: the dunce", "Dear Diogenes", "Dear Allan Meiusi", I'm a little more than interested to understand why someone would question how much I visit my aunt or to alledge that I don't even visit her on her birthday. Being involved in the industry that I am, I have to help explain the technology that our company provides to customers, partners and so on. I'm at least soothed by the fact that my understanding of the process to assign/ distribute IP addresses, be they stagnant (public or private), DHCP, NAT'ted, VPN, via Proxy or however propagated ...there is one thing that is common about IP addresses...they are routed through the internet and like any route...having the address a compitent IT person can usually find the origin or destination of that IP data transmission. Sure there is IP spoofing and so on, but that's usually not used by people in the general public. But the other thing about IP addresses and applications like Google search, for example, sometimes the application will also capture MAC. MAC addresses are most often assigned by the manufacturer of a network interface card (NIC), a burned-in address for an Ethernet port, WI-FI or Bluetooth modem, router, etc etc. So with the proper skill set having an IP address, a MAC address and a time-stamp an IT professional can tell you not only where the physical location is that something on the internet originated, they can tell you exactly which computer it came from.
That's just something I've come to learn in my profession. It's also the same thing that allows others to know that all those comments that I mentioned above came from the same IP address and via the same router. Probably easier for you to comment in the future using one alias to go with the one IP address.
That's just something I've come to learn in my profession. It's also the same thing that allows others to know that all those comments that I mentioned above came from the same IP address and via the same router. Probably easier for you to comment in the future using one alias to go with the one IP address.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Allan Meiusi (17:25), Allan Meiusi (10:38), Allan Meiusi (16:27)
I don't have a dog in this fight. I sort of leaned on your side until I read your last comment. Since you claim to be an IT pro , I now don't believe half the things you have written. For example if one uses a computer in a public library or a "common" computer in a facility such as Ehatare , the info you mention i.e. IP and MAC addresses would be identical for 2 or more users. Also to obtain these you would have to have access to the EWR server. Are you telling us that someone from EWR has given you access as a SA
to their server ? Another possibility is that you are hacking into the EWR server or tracing the net.
to their server ? Another possibility is that you are hacking into the EWR server or tracing the net.
this letter has an ominous tone - are you threatening the community out there that disagrees with you??
it is odd that you - who wants to be the new leader - would stoop so low as to threaten the community with your IT knowhow. It is even odder - because our parents ran away from Eesti - to escape people like you.
it is odd that you - who wants to be the new leader - would stoop so low as to threaten the community with your IT knowhow. It is even odder - because our parents ran away from Eesti - to escape people like you.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: to diogenes (11:42)
Escape people like me? You mena people can say whatever they want about me, even falsely accuse me of things, and I can't defend myself or hold them accountable. I can't ask the people who say these false things to use their names? I can have people say things about my family and not defend them? I think that's what our families wanted to free themselves from. I think they wanted freedom and the ability to defend their rights.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Allan Meiusi (17:25), Allan Meiusi (10:38), Allan Meiusi (16:27), Allan Meiusi (07:25)
While there is a process to admit members, I understand that there is also a process to terminate members. I really think that consideration should be given to terminating the memberships of those making unsubstantiated allegations about the staff and facility. If Ehatare wants a new facility, I really have to wonder how with all this muck raking one can expect the community to donate? I am not sure some of the folks doing the mud slinging or organizing a takeover have given much thought to this. Moreover, the funds spent on "special meetings" are borne by the organization, when these funds could be directed to better uses. I totally understand and agree that terminated employees are entitled to appropriate "packages". It's simply a question of the quantum. This may be an irritation to some, but it's the law of the land.
Hopefully you mean to terminate memberships instead of terminate members you dislike, though the Freudian slip is telling. A person lecturing on comportment, civility and "unsubstantiated allegations" like Ehatare Watcher should perhaps avoid calling people who disagree with him/her "a busybody with a grudge"...who should go to Church to pray for the ability to forgive (how Pharisee-like holier than thou),"unemployed", "ignorant and an incoherent hysteric" and "kooks and hysterics". On this thread at least, the only ones using demeaning terms are Ehatare Watcher and others who also "march" but behind "Leesment and Ruth", no less partisan than anyone else. Why the wrong assumption that you speak for everyone with a parent in Ehatare especially in such disagreeable terms? Many of the board's critics have loved ones there. Why the disparaging of a candidate's "ambiguous academic experience" when similar qualifications of previous and present board members escape such scrutiny? And who on earth cares about the technicality of a $10 membership a day earlier or later when someone well qualified and motivated volunteers to make a valuable contribution to Ehatare of her time?
A long time employee's abrupt firing was the catalyst for taking a look at who was running Ehatare and how because it seemed a poor decision. Why was the worker "popular" as Watcher sniffs? Could it be because she was good at her job? In fact, Dr. Leesment himself admitted as much at last year's meeting when speaker after speaker got up to praise her work at Ehatare. So she would have to have done something truly heinous for the board to risk a suit, right? This board of the only people who could possibly run Ehatare couldn't possibly have made a mistake, right? But yes, this will now play out in a court of law at great expense because the Board rejected advice to negotiate and use a mediator, another poor decision.
According to Watcher: "Why an employer should take into account the number of names on a petition is baffling". Well, if the employer/volunteer board is supposedly working on behalf of Ehatare residents, then a petition signed by those residents or their relatives should be of some interest, no? The majority of Ehatare residents signed a petition to reinstate the fired employee they valued. In another comment, this was dismissed as "phony as a $3. bill" on the basis of a single gentleman saying afterwards he didn't realize what he'd signed. That did not negate all the other signatures. Not all the elderly become incapable of understanding and making decisions. How patronizing.
The million dollar question is why do people on what's supposed to be a volunteer Board think they're a) infallible and b) indispensable and that anyone else volunteering to share decision making must be fended off one's turf by using any means, including expensive legal advice and electoral shenanigans? They and their supporters are no less guilty of slugging it out in the court of public opinion. So why the moral high horse?
As for Ehatare’s future, it is arguable whether if by some miracle the money were raised and a new facility built, “they will come”. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Estonians who are 75 and under have no requirement nor desire for an Ehatare. They feel more comfortable in English. They will largely move into retirement homes near their children. Surely the concern should be for our present elderly in their 80s and 90s and how best to meet their time limited needs? (The waiting list is in the same age group). Has the present Board not even considered the inevitable drop in demand for an Estonian retirement home within a decade or so? I’m not going to bother translating this comment into Estonian the way I did my first because anyone computer savvy who’s reading this whatever their age understands English
.
A long time employee's abrupt firing was the catalyst for taking a look at who was running Ehatare and how because it seemed a poor decision. Why was the worker "popular" as Watcher sniffs? Could it be because she was good at her job? In fact, Dr. Leesment himself admitted as much at last year's meeting when speaker after speaker got up to praise her work at Ehatare. So she would have to have done something truly heinous for the board to risk a suit, right? This board of the only people who could possibly run Ehatare couldn't possibly have made a mistake, right? But yes, this will now play out in a court of law at great expense because the Board rejected advice to negotiate and use a mediator, another poor decision.
According to Watcher: "Why an employer should take into account the number of names on a petition is baffling". Well, if the employer/volunteer board is supposedly working on behalf of Ehatare residents, then a petition signed by those residents or their relatives should be of some interest, no? The majority of Ehatare residents signed a petition to reinstate the fired employee they valued. In another comment, this was dismissed as "phony as a $3. bill" on the basis of a single gentleman saying afterwards he didn't realize what he'd signed. That did not negate all the other signatures. Not all the elderly become incapable of understanding and making decisions. How patronizing.
The million dollar question is why do people on what's supposed to be a volunteer Board think they're a) infallible and b) indispensable and that anyone else volunteering to share decision making must be fended off one's turf by using any means, including expensive legal advice and electoral shenanigans? They and their supporters are no less guilty of slugging it out in the court of public opinion. So why the moral high horse?
As for Ehatare’s future, it is arguable whether if by some miracle the money were raised and a new facility built, “they will come”. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Estonians who are 75 and under have no requirement nor desire for an Ehatare. They feel more comfortable in English. They will largely move into retirement homes near their children. Surely the concern should be for our present elderly in their 80s and 90s and how best to meet their time limited needs? (The waiting list is in the same age group). Has the present Board not even considered the inevitable drop in demand for an Estonian retirement home within a decade or so? I’m not going to bother translating this comment into Estonian the way I did my first because anyone computer savvy who’s reading this whatever their age understands English
.
I have a hard time believing that the firing was "abrupt", more likely it had to do with a number of issues over a long period of time with the employee in question that led to the dismissal.
No person should think that they are irreplaceable (that would be a person's ego leading them astray). I myself have learned from the school of hard knocks that everyone is replaceable.
You do bring up a good point that there will be less demand for an Estonian seniors residence in the future, but I would imagine that there will still be a substantial demand 10 years from now. An Estonian environment seniors home, in essence, is "an Estonian House" for seniors and many Estonians are fiercely tied to their customs, ethnic food and their roots. Personally, I can't imagine being happy in an English only facility with no Estonian cultural stimulation for the rest of my final senior years, that would be prison for me.
Either way, the new facility that needs to be built will need to adapt to the realities of the distant future when that time comes.
No person should think that they are irreplaceable (that would be a person's ego leading them astray). I myself have learned from the school of hard knocks that everyone is replaceable.
You do bring up a good point that there will be less demand for an Estonian seniors residence in the future, but I would imagine that there will still be a substantial demand 10 years from now. An Estonian environment seniors home, in essence, is "an Estonian House" for seniors and many Estonians are fiercely tied to their customs, ethnic food and their roots. Personally, I can't imagine being happy in an English only facility with no Estonian cultural stimulation for the rest of my final senior years, that would be prison for me.
Either way, the new facility that needs to be built will need to adapt to the realities of the distant future when that time comes.
"No person should think that they are irreplaceable (that would be a person's ego leading them astray). I myself have learned from the school of hard knocks that everyone is replaceable."
That comment applies more to the EAK board running Ehatare than any employee who would not be going to court claiming they were irreplaceable but that they were let go and replaced without just cause. There's no sense speculating that the termination of employment was not abrupt as that will now be decided on evidence in court. The board had better have documentation (and not back dated) of chronic unsatisfactory reviews given to the employee with ample time to correct any deficiencies. There should not be any evidence that the employee's duties were changed to make them more onerous or demeaning as that is considered "constructive dismissal". The court may also weigh praise received by the employee from Ehatare residents and their relatives e.g. a petition for her reinstatement against documented complaints. Are all these ducks in order? I repeat, the legal (and moral) issue is not whether the employee was replaced by someone as good or better but whether she was treated fairly according to Ontario law in so doing. Then there's the purely human desire to erase the blot on one's reputation that being fired leaves if one feels it was undeserved. The malicious speculation and innuendo directed at the employee since then have likely only added to her sense of injustice. But if the board had cause, treated the employee fairly and has proper documentation, no worries right? It's not as though they personally are going to be out any money if they made a wrong decision.
That comment applies more to the EAK board running Ehatare than any employee who would not be going to court claiming they were irreplaceable but that they were let go and replaced without just cause. There's no sense speculating that the termination of employment was not abrupt as that will now be decided on evidence in court. The board had better have documentation (and not back dated) of chronic unsatisfactory reviews given to the employee with ample time to correct any deficiencies. There should not be any evidence that the employee's duties were changed to make them more onerous or demeaning as that is considered "constructive dismissal". The court may also weigh praise received by the employee from Ehatare residents and their relatives e.g. a petition for her reinstatement against documented complaints. Are all these ducks in order? I repeat, the legal (and moral) issue is not whether the employee was replaced by someone as good or better but whether she was treated fairly according to Ontario law in so doing. Then there's the purely human desire to erase the blot on one's reputation that being fired leaves if one feels it was undeserved. The malicious speculation and innuendo directed at the employee since then have likely only added to her sense of injustice. But if the board had cause, treated the employee fairly and has proper documentation, no worries right? It's not as though they personally are going to be out any money if they made a wrong decision.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Diogenes (14:56)
All organizations encounter situations in which the employer's and employee's paths diverge. There are many reasons for termination of employment. For cause or otherwise. Diogenes expresses concern about the reputation of the employee. As I said earlier, what sane person would have it announced it to all and sundry via petition and Facebook sites? These are out there in cyberspace virtually forever, and make for interesting reading by potential employers and other interested parties. Certainly, a total lack of discretion. When it comes to expressions of concern about reputation, perhaps there should have been the same concern for the much maligned administrator, who has had no end or arrows sent her way. This expression of concern for one's reputation cuts both ways!
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Ehatare Watcher (21:35)
Jaak
nobody is hacking.
EWR itself tells us that the same IP address is being used by listing the all the aliases that were used from the same IP addres
small print below comment in light colour.
nobody is hacking.
EWR itself tells us that the same IP address is being used by listing the all the aliases that were used from the same IP addres
small print below comment in light colour.
How about those Leafs?
they are mathematically eliminated from the '13 season too.
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.