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VanemadUuemad
A very alarming motion was presented at the AGM. If passed it would mean that EM would need to break their contract with Revera. That could create millions of dollars of debt for EM if Revera sued. Where would the money come from?
Interesting! I posted the same information using the M word and it did not appear but the information without "M" showed up immediately.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Pirtsakas (15:29)
Sad day for our community when non-Estonians are elected to the board over actual community members.
I find this to be an incredible ignorant comment.
Firstly, I've never met the guy, but I've certainly heard of him. He lived in Eesti for a year, he has young kids who are in programs at the Eesti Maja and he is in the building several times a week and he fully supports and encourages the Estonian heritage within his family.
Looking at his resume he has a valid skillset with an excellent education. His work experience particularly in what looks to be with new business launches and finance look to be a good fit to help round out our board.
I wish more of our spouses from mixed marriages cared about and supported our community as much as Blake seems to. He may not be Estonian by blood, but he is an Eestlane in my books by heart, and that matters more to me than his last name.
ps. with his foody background I am particularly excited about the influence he may have on the culinary side of things in the new keskus.
Firstly, I've never met the guy, but I've certainly heard of him. He lived in Eesti for a year, he has young kids who are in programs at the Eesti Maja and he is in the building several times a week and he fully supports and encourages the Estonian heritage within his family.
Looking at his resume he has a valid skillset with an excellent education. His work experience particularly in what looks to be with new business launches and finance look to be a good fit to help round out our board.
I wish more of our spouses from mixed marriages cared about and supported our community as much as Blake seems to. He may not be Estonian by blood, but he is an Eestlane in my books by heart, and that matters more to me than his last name.
ps. with his foody background I am particularly excited about the influence he may have on the culinary side of things in the new keskus.
He may be a good guy, but I have never heard of him.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Sad (16:07)
You posted a seriously negative comment. You posted it against a person you admit you know nothing about. This is enough reason to label you ignorant.
By his deeds, it's clear that Blake is an Estophile. (Teretulemast meie hulka, armas mees!)
The infamous 'M' (the name that cannot be mentioned) is, in spite of his roots, an anti-Estonian.
Sad: "You should be locked in a room and forced to listen to 'M' try to speak Estonian." That should cure you of your disease.
The infamous 'M' (the name that cannot be mentioned) is, in spite of his roots, an anti-Estonian.
Sad: "You should be locked in a room and forced to listen to 'M' try to speak Estonian." That should cure you of your disease.
Thank you for clarifying. It’s important to know he is currently active in the community and therefore has a vested interest.
Tore kohe vaadata, kuidas tõsised eestlased siin oma kaunis emakeeles Toronto Eesti Maja saatuse üle vaidlevad :-)
Noh, Tarmo, huvitav vaadata sinu üleolevust. Sa järeldad, et kõik osavõtjad on hea emakeele valdajad. Ja kui üks nendest on Blake Royer või mõni teine mitte eesti keele valdaja, kas siis jättame neid vahekorrast välja?
Blake Royer would surely not be left out. Anyone who has such a strong vested interest in the future of the Estonian community most certainly would be enrolled in Estonian language courses. Also, he lived in Estonia for a year, right? So it is quite safe to assume can read Estonian at this point.
"Mr. Parming did not see it possible to release this type of legal document to the individual shareholder. "
Actually, Veiko, it would be very simple: scan them to .pdf and post them on that fancy ECC fundraising website...
There seem to be all sorts of "secret" agreements floating around: Loan agreements, trust agreements... almost brings to mind Molotov and Ribbentrop.
How about releasing all of these documents to the community at large? Committing to a policy of openness and transparency? And if something is really best kept under wraps, explaining WHY and in WHOSE interests and also for HOW LONG it has to be kept confidential?
Otherwise the conspiracy theorists will continue to have plenty of material ... or maybe they are actually right?
Actually, Veiko, it would be very simple: scan them to .pdf and post them on that fancy ECC fundraising website...
There seem to be all sorts of "secret" agreements floating around: Loan agreements, trust agreements... almost brings to mind Molotov and Ribbentrop.
How about releasing all of these documents to the community at large? Committing to a policy of openness and transparency? And if something is really best kept under wraps, explaining WHY and in WHOSE interests and also for HOW LONG it has to be kept confidential?
Otherwise the conspiracy theorists will continue to have plenty of material ... or maybe they are actually right?
Mida sa, HMMM, siin mõmised? Kui keegi sel koosolekul end väärikalt ülal pidas ja tasakaalu säilitas, siis oli see Veiko Parming. Hoia oma näpud ja hambad sellest mehest eemal ja luba küsida, kui hästi sa ise läbi paistad.
Ega see siin mingi võistlus pole. HMMM võib olla nii kinnine kui soovib.
Küsimus seisab, et miks ei saa kõneall olevat dokumenti osanikule avaldada? Mis siin peidus on? Kui osanik ei saa küsitleda valitud juhatuse tegevust, miks siis üldse valimist läbi viia?
Olukord jätab kibeda maigu suhu, meenutades endist kodumaal kehtivat režiimi.
Küsimus seisab, et miks ei saa kõneall olevat dokumenti osanikule avaldada? Mis siin peidus on? Kui osanik ei saa küsitleda valitud juhatuse tegevust, miks siis üldse valimist läbi viia?
Olukord jätab kibeda maigu suhu, meenutades endist kodumaal kehtivat režiimi.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Reader (18:54)
Asjalik küsimus, kahjuks esitatud vales kohas. See tulnuks tõstatada koosolekul, mitte kommentaariumis, kus koosolekult puudujad saavad vildaka informatsiooni. Esimehe vastusega jäid kõik rahule, kaasa arvatud dokumendi soovija, kes igas detailis pedantselt täpne. Kui esimees ei suutnud juriidilise ilmega küsimust rahuldavalt vastata, siis teinuks seda kindlasti kohal viibinud juriskonsult. Küsimata jäetud küsimus jääb alati vastamata.
'Väärikalt ülal pidamine ja tasakaalu säilitamine', ja ausa informatsiooni edasi andmine on täielikult erinevad asjad, võib jälgida Kanada peaministrit
These vote totals are possible but highly improbable. Something went down between the first and second vote. Recount!
Äsja peetud Eesti Maja aastakoosolekul jäid küsimustele vastamata (nagu varemgi) nii protseduurilistel või teistel põhjustel. Juriidiliselt võibolla igati korrektne aga läbipaistvust rõhutades Eesti Keskuse juhtkond tegutses äärmiselt ebaausalt. Selline üleolev käitumine - meie oleme parimaid advokaate konsulteerinud - on mureliku Eesti Maja toetajatele näkku sülitamine. Minu hinnang Eesti Keskuse juhtkonnast on nüüd null. Ega nendel sellest kahju pole.
Millised küsimused jäid vastamata? Selline huupi lahmimine on kõige labasem demagoogia. Minu arvamus sellist kommenteerijast on tükk maad allapoole nulli.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Koosolekul viibinu (10:13)
Shareholders are not automatically entitled to all records. We should elect directors we trust. Leave it to them to manage the affairs of the corporation. Do you really believe that as a shareholder of a corporation such as Bell Canada or Royal Bank you can ask to see such documents? Dream on. Väino Einola is delusional if he thinks he has access to such documents. For someone claiming to have expertise in this area, wow!
The key difference is that Eesti Maja is not a for-profit corporation, but a COMMUNITY CENTER. It needs the support of the people to fulfil its constitutional mandate. The support of ETCU isn't enough.
Meiusi torkab kaika kodaratesse.
Kahju mehest!
Kahju mehest!
So, do I understand correctly? The "M" word is Meiusi? What's he trying to destroy now?
What's he trying to destroy now?
What have you got?
That's his personality.
What have you got?
That's his personality.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: ikka ja jälle (17:32)
Of course an executive of an incorporated organization can withhold certain documents from release. But Estonian House has been considered to be the COMMUNITY HOME for Toronto Estonians, not a GM or Scotiabank. Yes they don't have to allow non-shareholders from meetings, but why? Rather than paying a PR professional to churn out weekly promo to bring the Esto Centre detractors on board, they can be more open about their activities and binding contracts. What in the world is so secret about these documents that they cannot bear public scrutiny?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Endine Esto Keskuse toetaja (11:38)
The Estonian community centre in question belongs to shareholders who have put their money where their mouth is.
That this doesn't suit some, on the sidelines, who wish to mind our business is an irrelevancy.
That this doesn't suit some, on the sidelines, who wish to mind our business is an irrelevancy.
Well if it's exactitudes you need showcased . . . for those of us on the sidelines “the business” that unfolded in the last two years has been a botched, debt digging, PR nightmare and has ripped apart the proud fabric of Toronto’s Estonian Community, THE hub of diaspora Estonian-ness on the Planet, and we have been watching, horrified. Entire families and old friends are not talking to each other, not LOOKING at each other (wth) and even boycotting learn-ed volunteers passing their skills on to the younger generation at a certain Children's Camp because: “Oh they are related to a pro-Esto House relative” and you are wallowing in your precious business? Give . . me . . a . . break.
Who, begins a multi-million dollar project without an architectural program?
Who presents said project, for the first time (smithed in solitude) to a stunned, uninformed audience, who had absolutely no input?
(and by the way, you don’t need to be a marketeer, to know seating for 250 patrons is just plain goofy) (here’s a tip: the numbers go 300, 500, 1,000 etc.) (you’re welcome)
Granted the glue that held everyone in our community together, all our efforts directed to a Vaba Eesti has changed.
An evolution was necessary, but like this? A successful project is not just about money, it needs some of the 'intangible' and I am not feeling it so careful what and who you are calling irrelevant.
Who, begins a multi-million dollar project without an architectural program?
Who presents said project, for the first time (smithed in solitude) to a stunned, uninformed audience, who had absolutely no input?
(and by the way, you don’t need to be a marketeer, to know seating for 250 patrons is just plain goofy) (here’s a tip: the numbers go 300, 500, 1,000 etc.) (you’re welcome)
Granted the glue that held everyone in our community together, all our efforts directed to a Vaba Eesti has changed.
An evolution was necessary, but like this? A successful project is not just about money, it needs some of the 'intangible' and I am not feeling it so careful what and who you are calling irrelevant.
glad you made the time to make your standard tiresome comments which provide absolutely no positive input
What I have been arguing for years, to no effect.
The EM bylaws clearly state that the purpose of the house is to serve the community (not just shareholders). This makes every Toronto Estonian a stakeholder in Eesti Maja.
A recent Supreme Court of Ontario ruling states that stakeholders have standing when it comes to the business of a corporation.
The EM bylaws clearly state that the purpose of the house is to serve the community (not just shareholders). This makes every Toronto Estonian a stakeholder in Eesti Maja.
A recent Supreme Court of Ontario ruling states that stakeholders have standing when it comes to the business of a corporation.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Markus Alliksaar (16:15)
Wow! So if you don’t hold shares in EM, you are irrelevant.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: To David (19:27)
F.Y.I. -- According to the Supreme of Ontario, a shareholder is a stakeholder; i.e., your distinction is vacuous.
That means that busibodies on the sidelines don't have standing in these discussions because they have no skin in the game.
Moreover, the infamous "M" (who can't be mentioned by name) is a 'head case' -- an energetic and mendacious destructive personality.
That means that busibodies on the sidelines don't have standing in these discussions because they have no skin in the game.
Moreover, the infamous "M" (who can't be mentioned by name) is a 'head case' -- an energetic and mendacious destructive personality.
Oil companies provide services to car owners.
Does that make us 'stakeholders' in their business?
Of course not!
Does that make us 'stakeholders' in their business?
Of course not!
So, anyone who does not hold shares in EM has no standing. This means that the youth who graduated from Toronto Eesti Kool - THE FUTURE of our community have no standing and are irrelevant.
Up until either 2010 or 2011 Eesti Maja presented each graduate with a share in Eesti Maja, effectively welcoming them into the community and giving them a say in the future. It appears that anyone under ~25 is irrelevant, their views and opinions simply don't matter.
I can only surmise that almost a decade ago EM stopped issuing shares to the youth of our community because they already had plans in place to eradicate EM.
The talk about the youth and what they want, and leading us to believe they WANT the new keskus is a lie. They have no voice. How could you possibly know what they want?
Up until either 2010 or 2011 Eesti Maja presented each graduate with a share in Eesti Maja, effectively welcoming them into the community and giving them a say in the future. It appears that anyone under ~25 is irrelevant, their views and opinions simply don't matter.
I can only surmise that almost a decade ago EM stopped issuing shares to the youth of our community because they already had plans in place to eradicate EM.
The talk about the youth and what they want, and leading us to believe they WANT the new keskus is a lie. They have no voice. How could you possibly know what they want?
I have never heard of this ?!! My child graduated in the mid '90's and never received a share .
The Board composition has changed drastically over the course of the last 20 years. There has been a healthy degree of turnover which in turn has brought in new ideas, thoughts, expertise, and strategies. All of which have come to the logical conclusion that the EM in its present state is no longer sustainable. The idea to sell EM and move was not an idea hatched in a back room at the drop of a hat. It has been discussed over the course of decades and now finally action has been decided on, in accordance with EM by-laws, the guidelines of the Corporation, and the laws of Ontario. Folks that have issues with the shareholder system should not be taking it out on the Board members of today, but the founders of EM who chose this method as their preferred means of governance. Present day directors are operating as best they can within the system they inherited, or better yet, born into. Give them a break and stop with the conspiracy mongering. Its tiresome.
Well said!
" The idea to sell EM and move was not an idea hatched in a back room"
Actually, this is what actually happened. Why? Our numbers are small and we are a shrinking population of active community members. This becomes a breeding ground for well-meaning people to take the reins and unfortunately make ill-advised decisions for the whole community.
It may prove interesting to know when the Estonian Foundation of Canada approached Alar Kongats for the Madison project. When past plans to build a new home on the Broadview House went south, the then Estonian House board members quickly accepted these new plans hook, line and sinker without doing proper research as to whether the community at large actually wanted this option. That is why we are in this mess today, a divided community.
Actually, this is what actually happened. Why? Our numbers are small and we are a shrinking population of active community members. This becomes a breeding ground for well-meaning people to take the reins and unfortunately make ill-advised decisions for the whole community.
It may prove interesting to know when the Estonian Foundation of Canada approached Alar Kongats for the Madison project. When past plans to build a new home on the Broadview House went south, the then Estonian House board members quickly accepted these new plans hook, line and sinker without doing proper research as to whether the community at large actually wanted this option. That is why we are in this mess today, a divided community.
Don't Look Back- Lyrics by Kenny MacLean
Promised the world
Surrender your heart to the girl
But it's, never enough
There's always something pulling ya
Wander around
Down in the old part of the town
In the streets you used to run
Chased by the sun and moon
Now you found your way there
How long will you stay here
Don't look back
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Tell her a lie
Follow that look in her eyes she knows; it's over
The way that you hold her she can tell
Now your days are racing by
There's no more time to wonder why
Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
ohh ohh ohh
Don't look back
Time has covered your tracks girl
Standing still for so long
For so long; yeah
Yeah; Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Don't look back (don't look back)
Time has covered your tracks girl
Standing still for too long
For to long OHH OHH
Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Ohh ohh
Promised the world
Surrender your heart to the girl
But it's, never enough
There's always something pulling ya
Wander around
Down in the old part of the town
In the streets you used to run
Chased by the sun and moon
Now you found your way there
How long will you stay here
Don't look back
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Tell her a lie
Follow that look in her eyes she knows; it's over
The way that you hold her she can tell
Now your days are racing by
There's no more time to wonder why
Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
ohh ohh ohh
Don't look back
Time has covered your tracks girl
Standing still for so long
For so long; yeah
Yeah; Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked, baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Don't look back (don't look back)
Time has covered your tracks girl
Standing still for too long
For to long OHH OHH
Don't look back (dont' look back)
The paint is faded and cracked baby
You can't hold on when it's gone
Ohh ohh
There was a steady stream of individuals arriving over the course of the meeting. There is NOTHING baffling about more shares being cast at succeeding votes. We clearly have conspiracy theories being hatched by those not happy with the outcome. My own view is that the amendment put forth to the bylaw did make sense. Do we really want a vacancy on the EH Board (ie, a vacancy arising between AGMs) being filled by someone who stood for election and got a paltry number of votes? I don't think so. Anyone appointed to fill a vacancy will be up for election by the shareholders at the next AGM.
I meant to say that the proposed amendment put forth from the floor did NOT make sense.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: An Observer (07:36)
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.