Suhteline vaesus on Eestis rekord tasemel, võrreldes Eesti rahvaga on Kadalased rikkad ja nüüd me lähme nendelt raha kerjama et oma suurhullustust kinni maskta?

Suur tükk ajab suu lõhki, häbi võiks olla.

As much as it pains me to say this, but KESKUS will go down in history as the biggest financial boondoggle of our community ...

And this dear readers, is why a certain group wants to sell Peetri Kirik. They simply cannot accept that there is NO bankruptcy for the church, and that things are moving along nicely for the congregation. If you want to build the Keskus, go for it! BUT, don't ride on the coattails of our forefathers who built the church, and don't lust after the money from a sale. OR, is it a tax break that you are looking for should the congregation move into the Keskus? Something to think about.

Tundub, et Veiko Parming ei ole end kurssi viinud Eesti praeguse olukorraga. Piisaks sellestki, et oma Eesti reisi ajal teha TV lahti ja vaadata uudiseid või lugeda mõnda ajalehte. Alles täna kirjutati, et vajalik on külmutada pesionid. Eesti rahvas ja riik on kordades vaesem, kui Keskuse projekti vedajad. Kas nad tõesti aru ei saa, et praegu, kus suur enamus rahvast elab vaesuse piiril, on väga ebasobik minna raha küsima?

This Keskus project has divided the Estonian Toronto community. Many organizations that depended on the Estonian House at 958 Broadview Ave. have now had to fend for themselves to exist. Only the Northern Birch Credit Union has been able to maintain and grow their sustainability by creating a branch at a Bloor Street address, a branch at the Latvian Center and a third branch in Hamilton. Now that this over-budgeted, overhyped Keskus project is finally going to meet its overdue demise, curious what the cost will be to repave the parking lot and how much can we expect from the sale of that Tibetan monk's heritage site which the credit union purchased by mistake (not realizing that they could not conduct business in a residential zone) beside the Keskus money-pit. Igal lollil oma lõbu.

Soovitan vaadata Aktuaalset kaamerat esimesed 3,5 min.
https://etv.err.ee/1609334534/...

Not worried in the slightest. Keskus is a beacon for estos everywhere. A celebration of achievement. A symbol of our bright future. Estonian entrepreneurs are among the most well respected, accomplished, intelligent, and visionary in the world. Funding will be a non issue. Sad how the ignorant, simpleton minority continues to sling mud and do what they can to destroy our community. All because a handful of folks didn’t get their way. They know not what they do I guess.

Ma arvan Keskuse juhatuse liikmed pole kunagi oma àri ajanud. Raha lugeda ei oska. Mòisakòis las lohiseb...
Kilplased.

What entrepreneurs would go into the Keskus, what are we selling? Shares? Stocks? Rental space? Or are we selling shares of Estonian startups, which are all online. Don’t get it, could someone explain rhis to me?

Better yet, just pay the 20 million needed to get the bloody thing up!

Or, just use the older historic red building for activities. That would make sense. And bring back that parking lot, so we can at least park somewhere! And make some money while you’re at it!

Ta elab vist keldris ema isa majas. Peale mobla ja creditkaardi pole kàes midagi hoidnud. Heaolu riik...

Eestis võiks kehtestada KESKUS-e maksu. Siis saaks klaasmaja ümber ehitada funktsionaalseks.

So much could have been done with the money instead of wasting it on this white elephant. Hopefully the KESKUS cult will admit defeat soon and leave our community in disgrace. At least they were not able to get their hands on our church.

Its not over. They have not given up on the church, they need the money from the sale.

you’re not. But you are calling the kettle black- and being a bully. Like EKN was elected? Just stop belittling people.

To Notice, I can assure you that I am totally Canadian, totally Estonian and totally against the KESKUS. We don't need Russian trolls to cause division in our community when we have the hole in the ground on Madison.

Keskuse "aju usaldus" (ehk "brain trust") võiks teha reklaami Tallinna Linnahalli treppide peal seistes: "Me tahame sellist monumendi eestlusele ehitada ka välismaal! Meil juba vähemalt poole vajaliku raha kokku kerjatud! Liituge meiega, et üleilmne eestkus saaks õndsaks ja meiesugused tähtsaks! Teie see ju nii väikene, valuvaba, tühja raha annetus puhuks meid nii suureks et teiste imede ees polekski enam vaja kukkardada!

So dear person, if according to you, none of these places were sustainable, over time how could the glass house with no parking and a huge what $20 million? debt be sustainable? Why are we saddling our youth with this?

So ironic, can still see the smug faces of the supporters of the glass house saying that the old EH was not sustainable, and needed - at least 1 million dollars!!- to redo it! Would that not have been money well spent?

But the real problem with our community is the lack of transparency and - sociopaths with good intentions telling the rest of us what should be done- because they know! Are any of the glass house donors questioning where their money went? Shouldn’t they be? Will they ever tell us- or does the quest for the next $4 million keep going?

Saddest part- there was no Call for Submissions! I’m sure people could have submitted amazing plans- but wait- Lembit Tork did! That could have been built by now at the EH location!! And it would not have cost $40 million. Hey, even the glass and wood from Eesti would have arrived by now, with no subway construction needed. It would have been a jewel!

Are yall saying most of that $30- 40 million has gone underground? And the useable space would be..?

I’m shocked by the pride? narcissism? of these people. And by the sheep following them.

So, for around $60 million the Indian Space Program sent a rocket to the moon. I guess we could have done that as well- mine kuu peale! next project for our illustrious leaders! Any takers?

Another point, I agree with you- we are all peasants. Matsirahvas. Maamatsid. Kus on Matsilaud- suggested donation- $5. Stepping up as the peasant I am. Peasant and proud!

Entrepreneurs start companies and run businesses. Is the Keskus not a cultural centre? It will be hard to break even running it- you need to book solid to pay back the loans. But what money, ROI, can entrepreneurs expect on investments from outside Canada? My name name on a plaque?

Aristotle on jumala eksiteel. Keskuse juhtkond on ilma firma omanike kogemustega. Mitta Keskuse vastased... Iga firma omanik voi endine omanik saab aru, et Keskus on nagu monster , mis valmis ei saa!!!!

Who is busines experience??? Hallo...

Kes siis Keskuses on teie arvates ärikogemuseta?

Kirjutage ùks nimi, kellel juhatusest on olnud oma firma vòi on olnud CEO.... ,firma boardis.lòpetagem. See on nagu vene ajal kòik istuvad " piruka" juures.

Alati kui on raha màngus voib olla vabatahtlikke juhtkonnas. Midagi saab panna "vasakule" jàlgi segades. Olgu see Ĵòekààru juhtkonnas vòi Tartu College-s, keegi ei korista ega tee sùua vabatahtlikult....
Raamatupidamist saab muuta uue systeemi vòi hard drive muutmisega!! See on nii lihtne.

On April 25, 2017 a vote was conducted at the Estonian House whether or not to sell the community home. Of the 3207 votes counted Pro 2148 (66.9%)
Contra 1059 (33.1%)
The block votes which voted for PRO totalled 1407 (43.8%). The block votes included:
Toronto Estonian Credit Union 714
Estonian Federation of Canada 129
Estonian Scouts 192
Kungla Folkdancers 140
Estonian Guides 77
Estonian Council of Canada 40
Total 1407
If you subtract the block votes represented by 7 individuals who in many cases did not consult with their members regarding the vote, the answer is 2148-1407= 741. So basically the popular individual CONTRA votes of 1059 outweighed the 741 Pro votes. In truth, the block voting skewed the voting results favouring the sales of the Estonian House. There was no recount ever taken and there has never been any investigation into suspected voting irregularities. Is there any wonder that the Toronto Estonian community is split over the vote taken on April 25th, 2017. The anti Keskus group is not a minority, but in fact a majority.

Toronto Estonian Men's Choir 115
also voted as a block PRO vote to sell the Estonian House. Please add these numbers to the previous posting.

“Eesti ettevõtlus - selle juured ja tulemused” ("Estonian entrepreneurship - its roots and results") was the topic of a 2024 lecture by U of T business prof and longtime advisor Mihkel Tombak (oddly not well attended in person or VEMU online). Did anyone learn anything about the “Keskus” project (by any of its names before and after the sudden vote to sell EH in 2017)? If he didn’t advise the purchase of the Madison Ave building just north of U of T, for example, which could then not be used due to zoning regulations (sitting empty for years after the purchase), could he not advise against it? Is anyone accepting responsibility for mistakes? Do we know who is making decisions? Should we look perhaps at volunteers receiving various public awards - an interesting way to reverse-message?

A lot of unexpected things have happened. Expect the unexpected? A “told you so”, from people with experience. What has been learned?

Juhtatus vòib nàgutada palju soovib.
Kui raha ei ole àra ehita. Ùle oma varju ei hùppa. Mùùge project maha ja asi korras

Juhtatus vòib nàgutada palju soovib.
Kui raha ei ole àra ehita. Ùle oma varju ei hùppa. Mùùge project maha ja asi korras

talk about a probable Russian Troll. Your post indicates that you have never been to any of the places you mentioned. Nothing but volunteers at JK or KJ. There are some at TC too.

On huvitav, et mitte kunagi ei ole mainitud, et Keskuse projekteerimisele oleks korraldatud konkurss. On ju reegel, et korraldatakse konkurss, kus siis laekunud töödest valitakse välja kõige sobilikum.
Eestlane on põhjamaine privaatne rahvas. Läbipaistvad klaasseinad ei ole eestlasele iseloomulik.
Eesti kaardi kuju võib ju tunduda vaimukas, aga kuidas seda näha? Kas Keskuse juhtkond hakkab korraldama Keskuse kohal helikopteri tuure ja seletama mitte-eestlastele, milline on Eesti maakaart ja selle kontuurid?

This entire project is about the following things: well- designed PROPAGANDA to support the Madison Project known as Keskus ; MOST Toronto Esto community members NOT bothering to delve deeply into ALL aspects of the project ( do their own research) and just blindly trusting the lead & leaders and, of course, a mentality where a type of "peer pressure" is exerted by project supporters, so others feel that they MUST go along with it ( or at least not question or criticize ) in order to maintain their status within the community.
All of these, coupled with the APPEARANCE (keyword being "Appearance") of DEMOCRACY, is how this project got pushed through. Project Leaders pre-determined what outcome they wanted ( A new EH near Tartu), then "worked backwards" to make sure that this pre-determined outcome ( simply put , a " shiny new esto house" on the MOST EXPENSIVE SITE you could build on)would appear to be chosen democratically.
Remember, that prior to the vote to sell Estonian House , shareholders were told if the $18 million did NOT cover the cost of the new project , ESTONIAN HOUSE WOULD NOT BE SOLD. They did not bother to mention that the full sale price, whatever it was, would NOT got go entirely to building the project, because the property was sold as a package with Sihtkapital houses and that money would be taken off the top. In fact, a lot of what the project leaders failed/fail to mention is far more SIGNIFICANT to COST, TIME DELAY and FUNCTIONALITY issues than what they DO say. There were NO articles explaining all THE RISK that the project had to take on, to satisfy for example, the TTC. These agreements would have made anyone question the project. Couldn't have that. Another example of how things don't get mentioned OR when they are ; they are cleverly disguised as a "good thing ." REMEMBER>>> The 4 Orgs promised "SEED MONEY" of $ 1 mil each. Seed money is a loan...funny how now this loan is calculated as part of the donations. What of the ESTO HOUSE money ...is that considered a donation too now ?
Interesting, that Ellen V. never returns to that $ 18 mil. statement. She does do a lot of talking though , and depending on what group she is talking to the "facts" seem to change. Again, only those people who closely , ( do their research )would know. Talk is cheap anyway. Just think if this whole project was your personal property....would you allow it to spiral out of control like this ?
Guess she does not want to remind anyone there was not even a call for submissions from all of our great esto architects. Of course not, because any architect needed to be in agreement with the pre-set agenda. Imagine what could have been done at the Esto house site. No years of time delays due to TTC requirements, before getting a full building permit.( OR, do they even have a FULL permit yet ? You know if they did photos of the posted building permit would be all over the paper and web pages. At the time, knowledgable ( in other words those few who did their research ) people quietly predicted that the project, would cost AT LEAST $50 million (more by now). This is due to the site's proximity to subway and LRT lines. I highly doubt that the project team themselves (since the due diligence, sorry to say, was a joke)even fathomed what exhorbitant costs and delays dealing with this inappropriate site would cause. NOT TO MENTION AGAIN,THE ACTUAL RESTRICTIONS THAT THIS SITE PUT ON THE PROJECT ITSELF.
BTW, another thing that is never mentioned are all the neighbouring properties where high-rise condos are going up, over-shadowing the glass box and Tartu. Oh yes, and that reminds me of VEMU. They have been trying to raise funds to build VEMU for years. Does it make any sense to go on with the glass box when you can't even raise enough for VEMU ?
WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE ...TAKING THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY INTO MEGA -DEBT IN ORDER TO SAVE FACE AND SELLING EVERY ASSET TO BUILD THIS UNSUSTAINABLE , GLASS BOX ? Seems that way.
Very sad. I vote for joining the LATVIANS at the LATVIAN CENTRE. Since , the credit union is already there , let's do the prudent thing before squandering the budget of a small to medium country on a white elephant at a time when Ukraine is at war for all of the Baltics.