Of yet even more numbers - Estonia today
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
interneti poeg26 Nov 2004 07:03
It's good to see that you've finally taken the advice of some of the posters and finally visited the Estonian Embassy.


By chance did you also volunteer to help out with any of the upcoming functions?
Anonymous26 Nov 2004 08:23
Thanks for (yet another) well-informed, well-written article on a serious and important issue.

Estonians compose a small and shrinking population. Indeed, we're headed toward a crisis which, in my judgement, can only be averted by the integration of foreigners. I've been told that a noticable number of Russian parents are sending their children to Estonian schools but not yet sufficient for a significant impact. This sort of thing has to be encouraged. When the Soviets engaged in the repression of minorities, leftists said it was progressive. Democracies don't have the same freedom of movement and, by contrast, their policies must cross a minefield of civil rights issues.

Can you describe the contours of Estonian policy governing this area? It would be great to hear from Charge d'affairs Arno Küünemäe on this matter.

Thanks again for your informed commentary and don't let the cretins get you down.
Peter26 Nov 2004 19:59
The number of non-Estonians in Estonia is a serious problem and now after Estonia has been "free" for 10 years it is obvious that current government policies are not working and Estonia must seriously consider implementing some of the pro-family laws and policies of the Päts regime.
The Soviet Union attempted a genocidal policy of immigration meant to make Estonians a minority in their own country and make our formerly free and independent people into citizens of an experimental state based on socialism and multiculturalism. The situation now is no better as the Estonian birth rate has plummeted because of the corrupt and incompetent politicians now running the country. The EU offers little hope as its members have even bigger problems, one only has to look at the current situation in Holland, Spain and other countries that have used immigration to "solve" some of their labour problems. If their populations continue to decline due to their selfishness, decadence and anti-family attitudes then a perpetual Islamic insurgency and their eventual reconquest into a new Ottoman Empire is inevitable.
Estonia coud lead the way and be an example to the entire Western world by bringing back responsible government that puts the interests of the nation and people first.
To those critics of Päts who are already getting ready to write comments criticizing his government and my support for him, I would like to remind you that Estonia had a stable and growing population at that time and were the overwhelming majority of citizens in the republic. That era was truly our golden age.






Peeter Bush27 Nov 2004 13:46
Actaully "poeg", I've been at the embassy several times in the past. You really should try to get your info right before you shoot off about something and somebody you know very little about. Fortunately almost nobody takes you seriously anymore, especially people that know me, so it really doesn't matter much what you write.
Hope you have a good holiday season.
Peeter
Interneti poeg27 Nov 2004 14:01
PB

Thanks for reading part of the post, so which functions have you volunteered to assist with at the Estonia Embassy...


Interesting reading on the following website

http://www.martinbush.com/New sArchive.htm




to -- interneti tola29 Nov 2004 08:25
you're living proof that the devil makes work for idle hands...and minds.
bored with IP's bitterness29 Nov 2004 19:20
...and I would like to know what wonders of volunteering the high and mighty Interneti Poeg has done, for him to judge others so harshly? I wish you would just give it a rest...it's not becoming of a good person.
Anonymous29 Nov 2004 08:55
Fall 2003: Recently retired, my dad Peter (Peeter Bush) drives the Estonian community nuts as he begins his career as an author.
Estonian29 Nov 2004 11:18
For all of his eccentricities, I doubt that your father, Peeter Bush, named you "anonymous". Be that as it may, you've arrived here to provoke a row, much like "interneti tola". (Shame on you both.)

If you took some time to read Eesti Elu with some patience you'd discover that, in fact, your father doesn't drive the community nuts. He infuriates a few rigid individuals who resent the presentation of unpleasant truths. In the absense of their ability to dispute the facts, they attack him ad hominum. They're playing their only card.

Your father is highly unusual in his willingness, time and again, to do some research, compose an article that may include some controversial elements, and boldly post his name to it knowing, in advance, that some will throw stones at him. For that alone, I respectfully bow before your father and I believe that you should as well.
Martin Bush29 Nov 2004 19:51
The name is Martin, and no I didn't post under "anonymous". Someone else did and was quoting from my website. No doubt as you suggested to provoke a row.

The comment noted from my website was made in the Fall of 2003 and was a passing reference to my father beginning to write. I recall even then he had his detractors and supporters and this comment was made in jest as are many entries on my website.

Occasionally I read Eesti Elu online. I find this site both interesting and insightful with respect to the history of Estonia, the homeland of my father's side of the family. I am proud that my father has taken the time to research, write and participate in this forum.

I am pleased to see that this forum has many active readers who participate through discussion of the articles that are posted.

Thanks to Interneti poeg for prompting this sidebar discussion - I never thought I would have occassion to write here!
Anonymous29 Nov 2004 21:24
You appear to be a decent guy, Martin Bush, and therefore I'm glad that you were "on the premises" when someone impersonated you in order to provoke a row. The author of that ugly, shameful act should be dipped in piss.

Was that you Interneti Tola? Fess up!
Anonymous29 Nov 2004 12:02
Don't you mean "Ad Hominem"?
Estoniun29 Nov 2004 19:26
Posibly, but I'll half to chek my dictionery.
blah blah blah29 Nov 2004 19:27
'ad nauseum' would work too
What's the bruhaha about30 Nov 2004 09:03
C'mon what "value added" benefit does PB add to this publication?

I recently reviewed all his articles and the posted commentaries (yes it was a slow day). All it would seem is that PB is reviewing books published 20+ years ago, "commenting" on articles from his perspective, recalling how "things used to be" and just plain commentary (I didn't know PB was on the editorial staff). Sure Interneti poeg seems to go off on a tangent at times if not boorish, but look at the material Peter Bush serves up, it's drivel at it's best.

It would seem Eesti Elu (EE) is stuck for articles when it posts such ill preapared articles or is it truely like I over-heard at a GTA function (by a member of EE) that the PB articles are only used to increase usage of the website.

Pity if this true.

I prefer reading the "letters to Toomas" (Voitk) over the ramblings of a retired Revenue Canada employee, who decided to give-up on the community and his heritage nearly 30 years ago and now comes back with the same misconceptions and biasis as when he left .....

The community has changed, yes it has gotten smaller, but does that mean we have to put up with poor articles to fill up space in EE ??????
Tiritamm30 Nov 2004 11:56
You're far too hard on Peeter Bush. I sense that the subject matter of his articles are of no great interest to you and, for that, you don't have to apologize. But, you're lack of interest doesn't make them worthless.

We're a small and insecure community and that has given rise to some reassuring hypocracies. For example, you can spout any nonsense whatsoever about Estonia and Estonians, so long as it's positive. (Eesti piir käib vastu hiina müüri ja Venemaa peab vahelt kaduma.) In this context, Peeter Bush is annoying to some because he doesn't play that game. He's the first to admit, for example, that he doesn't speak Estonian very well and he has been taken to task for it. I'd rather listen to his blunt, brutal honesty before another familiar type who says, "mina oskan estoniani spiikida väga hästi" or "we'll always be Estonians, long after we've lost our language."

For all of its deficiencies, I love my heritage and, as a part of it, this this little newspaper. Few satisfactions compare to an intelligent, well-crafted article by Puusaag, Mikiver, Purje, Naelapea, Toomes and, among others, Peeter Bush. It's because of them that this little newspaper compares well with others that you may read in Estonia. God bless their good work.
Anonymous30 Nov 2004 12:02
I wish bruhaha would keep his or her personal vendetta to himself or herself. You have too much time on your hands if you have time to research all of PBs articles (have you thought about volunteering some more?). You obviously know the man personally and have knowledge about him (i.e. being a rev Can employee) that most readers don't have. Your attacks come across as childish and annoying. Let the man write his articles. I certainly don't scrutinize every word he writes to discover some horrible evil behind the man. Oh, yes, I forgot, he doesn't volunteer enough and therefore he's not a good enough Estonian.
Konstantin.30 Nov 2004 12:45
On Bush's worthwhile comments. It seems like you're only interested in rebuttal for its own sake. Quit with all the nonsense about this volunteer thing and get back to the subject, eh.
What's the bruhaha about30 Nov 2004 12:50
Anonymous,

Yes I currently have some time left over from volunteering for JK, KJ, Eesti Koolid, Hundud, koorid, my Estonian frat, after a day at work.

I also read the website of Martin Bush (that someone posted, which gives details of PB history ..... reviewed one rainy afternoon).

Perhaps I've gone over the edge and made my critic of PB's writing skills seem personal, but I guess that's way I read PB's writings of the Estonian society. His opinions are based on his interactions from decades ago and only recently has he "found the time" to get interested.

PB gave up on his heritage (his own admission from previous articles) and now is writing about things that are 'duh (like Homer Simpson would say) and some are about things +20 years out of date (his piece on Dr. Aun's book) or how he remembers things from when Op. Kivisik was still preaching in Hamilton.

Tiritamm,

I too am very proud of my heritage and the issue behind this article is of great interest to me. All one has to do to keep up with what's going on in Eesti is to Google search either Estonia or Estonian and get "both sides" of the lanaguage issue that PB writes about.

As far as PB writing a well crafted article ..... well I'm still waiting. And as for being small you're absolutely correct. Insecure perhaps. PB annoying ABSOLUTELY.

Last time I checked, PB has every right to write his drival, EE has the righjt to print and I have the right to criticize both. Perhaps PB should stick to doing reviews of the "Oktoberfests" that seems to be what he knows best.
Tiritamm30 Nov 2004 15:28
Your assertions that Bush's writing is worthless filler in Eesti Elu remain unconvincing. You could prove otherwise with an intelligent, well-crafted article on a topic of your choice. With that, the editors and readership would rejoice and Peeter Bush would slink away quietly to hide his face in shame. Please don't say that you don't have the time because the article doesn't have to be any longer than your present commentary.

I'm expecting our fine little newspaper to become just a little bit better.
Eesti Päike01 Dec 2004 06:44
The little paper that grew?
Peter01 Dec 2004 07:05
I hope that Peeter Bush continues to write for Eesti Elu as no one else has been able to get such discussions going. I do not agree with a lot of what Peeter writes and I am sure that he does not agree with many of the opinions that I have expressed here but I have yet to see any other writer for this paper provoke so much discussion and often heated arguments between readers.

Anonymous01 Dec 2004 13:22
Bruhaha should comment on the article that launched this discussion where Bush writes of a threat to the Estonian nation. That's not drivel! Please, Bruhaha, come forth with a positive contribution.
lugeja30 Nov 2004 14:00
Peeter Bush is OK, because his writing encourages readers to engage in dialogue.
Like his writing or not, this IS a good thing!
Personally, my favorite is Kargu Karla!!!
Hmm01 Dec 2004 09:01
How intelligent of you to reply with "what, you can do it better?" This was already a fairly petty thread, but congrats, you took it to a new level.

P.S. I have no clue who Peeter Bush or anyone else mentioned here is, just reading the site with a wry smile
on looker01 Dec 2004 16:29
Q: What's the difference between PB and the guy on CityTV who highlights the morning papers?

A: A pony tail, a bath robe and a TV audience.
Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.