You are insane.

What sort of a response is that-why don't you give Maxim what he deserves; a good kick up....but come to think of it, I too am really at a loss to prove that German occupation would have left fewer scars. What then is the answer?

That silly Maxim perceives equivalence between the actual deeds of the communists and the potential deeds of the Nazis.
There's nothing funnier than a fool who thinks he's an intellectual.

No Estonian in a Soviet uniform fought for Estonian freedom, although some of them fought for communism and the incorporation of Estonia into the Soviet Union. That motivation and objective is quite different.
I wonder. Are you being provokative, or, are you truly as stupid as you appear to be?

The sad fact of life is that too many people tend to see the big picture, and forget that an awful lot of men in (Soviet uniform) who didn't manage to escape, but at some point in time didn't get shot by the Soviet authorities and/ or managed to see their way through the maze of living for a time as a forest brother...there were many more of these kinds of people than we care to give them credit for. And the fact that you refuse in absolute terms to see these men as people without the slightest interest in Estonia shows that any amount of evidence contrary to what you care to believe in simply falls on deaf ears. I am not discrediting the efforts of men who fought in German uniform if they saw that as being the only way to fight for Estonian freedom. But in the course of the past 50 years there are also a lot of names that have transpired that show exactly the same motives from the other side. If you refuse to believe this simple truth, then you've been much more brainwashed by other Estonians abroad than you care to admit. If you're going to give credit, then give it where it is due-even to those men who you care little about (those forced to stay behind), and who remained in Estonia whilst you and others managed to fall on better times.

How come your writing style is exactly the same as Maxim's?

Take your commentary to a competent English-speaker and ask him why it fails to communicate.
I've read it twice and carefully, thinking that there might be a coherent idea in there. It's like lifting the planks off a cess-pool.

Then you must be a complete nincompoop!! It's spelled out very clearly, and if you don't understand it, then obviously the thought has never occurred to you in the first place! But this is not the best site to display your own ignorance- and then turn it around abusing me (using your tactic as a distorted form of defense) because you can't wrap your little head around such an elementary thread of logic. Dogs always smell their own )(*´#"¤ first!!

The most worrying aspect about your comment is your refusal to take a stand one way or the other. I understand that you have a problem with the question of Soviet occupation versus German..as outlined in several of my comments..but can it possibly be that in attacking me so ruthlessly you actually want to express the point that you are supporting the possibility that of the two occupations, the German one was the most preferred? Am I the only one who sees this possibility? Of course I expect you to shoot me to pieces now that I have become so pointedly painful in the entire argument...Please note also that there is a noticeable difference in the tone of argument we use, and I would appreciate less personal abuse from you in future.

soviet occupation of eesti - 1940, 3000 killed/vanished, - 1941, 33,000 military aged men mobilized/deported/killed, 9,800 others deported/killed, - 1945, 10,200 deported, - 1949, 20,000 deported .... can you figure it out maxim ?

Maxim. I was not going to say anything but you have gone over the top. I thought I was the only one having trouble with your english. It is not your spelling but the way you arrange sentences. Very very hard to understand what you mean. In your post you seem to insult Estonian freedom fighters by saying they were collaborators. Nothing could be further from the truth. Who were the metsavennad collaborating with other than the local population. Why would they be living in the forest if they were collaborating . You just don't make any sense. I think it is time for you to apologize, if you are man enough. If you don't, you will prove and we will all know what/who you are .

I do apologise if you felt offended-that was certainly not my intention. I have met a lot of men in Estonia who have lived a simple life, but were forced to don the Soviet uniform, and who are as sincere and patriotic as any WW 2 freedom fighter who did their damn best to make sure Estonia remained free. It seems as though there is a very strict code of how many Estonians abroad interpret history, which basically insists that no-one had any right or excuse to don a Soviet uniform, but there are exceptions that can be made in the case of a German uniform. You have every right to maintain your belief and understanding in what you perceive to be the truth. Once again-please accept my apologies.

What you say simply isn't true. There are plenty of Estonians in Canada that were once forced to serve in the Soviet army. The rest of us view them as unlucky and nothing more. The few Estonians who served the Soviets voluntarily and enthusiastically are viewed in other terms. As a Canadian -- surely -- you know this.

In regard to your desire for respect, I have some advice for you: present your facts logically in conventional English. Any counter-argument, to be effective, must be similar and also respectful. On the other hand, you should know by now that the only possible response to almost incomprehensible, righteous-sounding hectoring is a jeer; because fact and logic have no impact on gibberish.

"There are plenty of Estonians in Canada that were once forced to serve in the Soviet army. The rest of us view them as unlucky and nothing more". Well this is indeed very interesting...I suspect you view them much more harshly than those who donned a German uniform, and this comes through loud and clear in your comment. Anyway this is all history which has very little relevance to the problems confronting contemporary Estonia. I'm not offering any further opinion on the subject. Good night!

NEWS FLASH!..We're not waiting for your further opinion on the subject.

How's it going with solving the problems confronting contemporary Estonia? Til now, we didn't know that you were going to fix everything. Thanks, in advance.
Let us know when the Estonians sing hymns of thanksgiving.

To Maxim: I know that you often like to express pro-Russian views in this forum, but I do not agree with your assessment of the situation during WW II and I do not think that the Soviet Union and their politics expressed the views and opinions of the Russian people.
The Germans were seen as liberators in Estonia and that is a fact that can not be argued. It was the Soviet Union that took over Estonia and subjected the people to a year of Stalinist terror. The German army was welcomed with open arms by most Estonians except for the ones who had supported the Soviet regime, mostly a small group of subversives, misfits and common criminals, many of them not of Estonian descent.
The Estonians in the Soviet army can be divided into 2 groups. The "jeestlased", Estonians who had lived in Russia for generations and were brainwashed into thinking that they were going to liberate the country from the "evil capitalists". it is hard to blame these people for their views since they had never been to Estonia and did not know what life was like there. The other group were the conscripts. Many Estonians were drafted into the Red Army but after the first battles where they surrendered and went over to the Germans they were no longer trusted and most were put in camps and treated worse than prisoners. Many starved or were worked to death. In the last year of the war they were sent into combat again but by then there was almost no chance of them surrendering and joining up with an almost-defeated German army.

I never mentioned anywhere that I was the one doing all the fixing here in Estonia! You know perfectly well that there are many many people needed to do that job, and why you're not here helping out is a matter for your conscience-or, it seems, an excuse to be critical of others and self-rightous all in one breath. You and other critics extend my thoughts well beyond the boundaries I myself would take them, and that is called being intellectually dishonest! The only one whose opinion is worth anything to me and I suspect most readers of this paper is Peter, because he speaks frankly without ever being rude. And I think we all need to be reminded of this by acknowleging the value of his efforts in this paper. My other critics deserve an award for being the most boring respondents this side of an Estonian language newspaper.

Gentlemen - interesting debate in theory - but lets face the fact that Estonians were in a maelstrom - the vast majority just wanted their country and families to survive - without a thought for "isms". I suggest that the interesting story is how individuals in a small beseiged country struggled for a future and not who believed in what political ideology. Molding generalizations in hindsight to fit personal agendas seems to be self-serving.