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VanemadUuemad
It seems that Russia is very keen on closing the gap between East-West relations by putting a few cards of her own on the table. Yours truly believes that when Russia screams and shouts, the world seems to fall in line with Russia. History has shown this to be the case, and there is no reason to believe otherwise in the present situation. The EU is a toothless tiger without an appetite!
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0Aadu,
Remember all the "worst nightmare scenarios" that Russia invoked when it seemed that there suddenly was a chance of the last NATO expansion actually happening (1995 onward)?
Remember the countless articles? Russian Generals, the Foreign Minister, the Duma, Russian "experts", all predicting "dire consequences".
So did any NATO country back down? Emphatically, No!
Everybody new that this was how Russia acts. And in the last round, Eesti and 6 others were accepted as full members of NATO.
There was an exact analogy with accession to the EU... and again, despite Russia's growling and "overt" threats, look at who got into the EU.
And there was hardly a peep by Russia after the fact.
Aadu: History has shown that the world does not back down when Russia stamps here feet and shouts like some spoiled brat. Quite the opposite.
Remember all the "worst nightmare scenarios" that Russia invoked when it seemed that there suddenly was a chance of the last NATO expansion actually happening (1995 onward)?
Remember the countless articles? Russian Generals, the Foreign Minister, the Duma, Russian "experts", all predicting "dire consequences".
So did any NATO country back down? Emphatically, No!
Everybody new that this was how Russia acts. And in the last round, Eesti and 6 others were accepted as full members of NATO.
There was an exact analogy with accession to the EU... and again, despite Russia's growling and "overt" threats, look at who got into the EU.
And there was hardly a peep by Russia after the fact.
Aadu: History has shown that the world does not back down when Russia stamps here feet and shouts like some spoiled brat. Quite the opposite.
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0When I went see whether my Comments had sucessfully been entered, I see Maxim also had one there!!
I'm beginning to see why other's are so riled by Maxim.
He does seem to take the truth and multiply it by (minus 1)... at least when he's not spouting some unsupportable opinion.
Sigh!
I'm beginning to see why other's are so riled by Maxim.
He does seem to take the truth and multiply it by (minus 1)... at least when he's not spouting some unsupportable opinion.
Sigh!
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0Toomas; why don't you come to Estonia occasionally and check out what the real feeling is about EU and NATO security for Estonia. Time and again in the press and in private conversation it is clear that Estonians are concerned about Russia. Why you are so blaze and over - confident in Estonia's security is a mystery to most Estonians. Maybe you should check more often on what's actually happening on the ground. How do you explain the EU-s non-reaction to Russia's violation of Estonian airspace? Where are your waterproof facts for that problem???!!!
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0I believe that Toomas is correct in observing that the collective will of a large and powerful organization like NATO or the EU will not be broken by Putin's moaning.
However, I also believe Maxim is right in suggesting that NATO and the EU are unlikely to charge to the defence of individual Estonian-Russian issues, such as the recent violation of airspace. In the grand scheme of things, "all for one and one for all", does not, has not and will never apply to our tiny state.
However, I also believe Maxim is right in suggesting that NATO and the EU are unlikely to charge to the defence of individual Estonian-Russian issues, such as the recent violation of airspace. In the grand scheme of things, "all for one and one for all", does not, has not and will never apply to our tiny state.
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0Thanks Jaak... as for your second point, while [i]debatable[i], it is relevent.
Maxim:
OK. Let’s see where we are:
Your original points (Comment post #1)
1. It seems that Russia is very keen on closing the gap between East-West relations by putting a few cards of her own on the table. (well Maxim, I can’t find what you mean by cards anywhere in the article – you must be reading between the lines)
2. … when Russia screams and shouts, the world seems to fall in line with Russia (Maxim, here you are demonstrably wrong)
3. History has shown this to be the case (wrong again)
4. there is no reason to believe otherwise in the present situation (your opinion, Maxim, but nonsense because of points 2 & 3 above)
Your reaction to my post (Comment post#4)
1. Toomas … come to Estonia … check out … what the real feeling is … (What do feelings have to do with either the article or my post?)
2. … time and again … Estonians are concerned (see my previous comment)
3. Why you are so blaze and over-confident … is a mystery to most Estonians (Sorry, I didn’t realize that you are “Most Estonians)
You then bring up another matter irrelevant to the article and my post.
You’ve got style Maxim. Real style.
Maxim:
OK. Let’s see where we are:
Your original points (Comment post #1)
1. It seems that Russia is very keen on closing the gap between East-West relations by putting a few cards of her own on the table. (well Maxim, I can’t find what you mean by cards anywhere in the article – you must be reading between the lines)
2. … when Russia screams and shouts, the world seems to fall in line with Russia (Maxim, here you are demonstrably wrong)
3. History has shown this to be the case (wrong again)
4. there is no reason to believe otherwise in the present situation (your opinion, Maxim, but nonsense because of points 2 & 3 above)
Your reaction to my post (Comment post#4)
1. Toomas … come to Estonia … check out … what the real feeling is … (What do feelings have to do with either the article or my post?)
2. … time and again … Estonians are concerned (see my previous comment)
3. Why you are so blaze and over-confident … is a mystery to most Estonians (Sorry, I didn’t realize that you are “Most Estonians)
You then bring up another matter irrelevant to the article and my post.
You’ve got style Maxim. Real style.
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0Toomas, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you are so far removed from reality which in Estonia is very different to what you perceive it to be over there in Canada. Sure, believe and write what you like, but even your rebutt shows that you can't even PROVE where I'm wrong in my opinions-they are simply the other side of the coin; your personal opinions. And no doubt you are entitled to them as anyone else is to theirs. I'd love to see a list of examples from you as the where Russia has not got her way-or where the West has not fallen in line with Russia. If there is such a list, how do you explain the underlying European fear of treating Russia with kid gloves?
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0Maxim: you wrote [i]I'd love to see a list of examples ... where Russia has not got her way[i]
Well the two huge Foreign Policy losses incurred by Russia in the 21st century were her inability to prevent NATO enlargement followed by her humiliating failure to thwart EU expansion. This despite a “no holds barred” and prolonged campaign of threat, shouting, enticement, backroom lobbying, foot stomping, etc. Nobody listened. Nobody, Maxim. The West simply did not back down.
But Maxim, that’s where this whole thread started a day or so ago… the onset of your short-term memory loss must have been swift and frustrating.
But, hey! I bet you were a star back in your heyday, while studying at the Moscow Institute of Disinformation.
Well the two huge Foreign Policy losses incurred by Russia in the 21st century were her inability to prevent NATO enlargement followed by her humiliating failure to thwart EU expansion. This despite a “no holds barred” and prolonged campaign of threat, shouting, enticement, backroom lobbying, foot stomping, etc. Nobody listened. Nobody, Maxim. The West simply did not back down.
But Maxim, that’s where this whole thread started a day or so ago… the onset of your short-term memory loss must have been swift and frustrating.
But, hey! I bet you were a star back in your heyday, while studying at the Moscow Institute of Disinformation.
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0Again, Toomas, just another case of verbal diahorrea. No facts, just no holes barred all out character assassination. Russia today is credited with much bigger potential than her ENTIRE 20th century history put together. That's why everyone, starting from Margaret Thatcher to Gerhard Shröder is placing BIG bets on Russia coming through big time this time, while North America..well, that disaster doesn't need further explanation from me! Bush alluded to it all too clearly in this morning's news.
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0Merilo mentioned the expansion of NATO and the EU against Russia's wishes -- two specific facts.
Maxim calls this "no facts" and counters with ambiguous "big bets" and "potential".
Give up Merilo! You don't stand a chance against this kind of irrationality.
Maxim calls this "no facts" and counters with ambiguous "big bets" and "potential".
Give up Merilo! You don't stand a chance against this kind of irrationality.
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0.... isn't the pipeline going from vyborg to roshtock ...
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0Western Europe (EU) aligns with Russia to hopefully secure oil as per the Putin/Schroeder deal.
Newly liberated Central Europe aligns with the USA, NATO and EU and send their young soldiers to fight American imperialistic wars in the hope of having help in keeping the Russians at bay.
When push comes to shove, who will get caught in the middle ?
Newly liberated Central Europe aligns with the USA, NATO and EU and send their young soldiers to fight American imperialistic wars in the hope of having help in keeping the Russians at bay.
When push comes to shove, who will get caught in the middle ?
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