Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Laas.
you write that nearly 10% Estonians have abandoned their electoral rights, yet you seem then to go on to say that in 1992 the figure was 32%, in 2003 it was 42% and in 2004 it was 73%. How did you get the 10% figure?
Just out of curiosity, what is the rate for residents of Canada?
Since our Estonian citizenships for the most part are acquired "by blood" the Canadian census figures should give us the number of people eligible to vote. This statistic is probably more relevant given the audience you seem to be writing to and would be of general interest.
Given my understanding of Estonia's citizenship law as presently set out in the constitution (põhi seadus), you are automatically granted the right to vote even though you don't live in Estonia (never have and probably never will), you don't have to understand the history, language or know how their political process works or even meet other normal obligations of citizenship such as paying taxes or serving your time in Estonian defence forces. In other words you could mark up the ballot any way you want and not have to live with the consequences.
Given the the article is written in English it seems primarily directed at readers with poor or non-existant Estonian language skills.
Ära pane pahaks, aga võibolla oleks parem olnud kui see tähtis teema oleks ainult ilmunud eesti keele lehekülgedel.
you write that nearly 10% Estonians have abandoned their electoral rights, yet you seem then to go on to say that in 1992 the figure was 32%, in 2003 it was 42% and in 2004 it was 73%. How did you get the 10% figure?
Just out of curiosity, what is the rate for residents of Canada?
Since our Estonian citizenships for the most part are acquired "by blood" the Canadian census figures should give us the number of people eligible to vote. This statistic is probably more relevant given the audience you seem to be writing to and would be of general interest.
Given my understanding of Estonia's citizenship law as presently set out in the constitution (põhi seadus), you are automatically granted the right to vote even though you don't live in Estonia (never have and probably never will), you don't have to understand the history, language or know how their political process works or even meet other normal obligations of citizenship such as paying taxes or serving your time in Estonian defence forces. In other words you could mark up the ballot any way you want and not have to live with the consequences.
Given the the article is written in English it seems primarily directed at readers with poor or non-existant Estonian language skills.
Ära pane pahaks, aga võibolla oleks parem olnud kui see tähtis teema oleks ainult ilmunud eesti keele lehekülgedel.
I think that your Canadian votes simply level out the uneven quality of the Estonian voting system, since we know that most of you will vote for Isamemme/puberteetika partei, and most local Russians vote for keskerakond anyway, then chances are that it balances itself out pretty evenly, I'd say.
Quite a moral dilemma this voting!
Voting in elections is an unwritten moral obligation undertaken when one voluntarily applies for Estonian citizenship. However, I'm not sure how this jives with the moral implications of voting for a government in a country in which we do not live - or, as the previous comment correctly observes- where we do not have to live with the consequences of our choises thousands of miles away in our safe Canadian homes.
Having said that, I think Lia is right to say that it is incumbent on those who are Estonian citizens here to inform themselves of the issues. Maxim also brings up the important point of our function in balancing out the votes of the Russian minority - while likely not all that right in the human rights context, as an Estonian, this is one of the most important reasons to vote.
Voting in elections is an unwritten moral obligation undertaken when one voluntarily applies for Estonian citizenship. However, I'm not sure how this jives with the moral implications of voting for a government in a country in which we do not live - or, as the previous comment correctly observes- where we do not have to live with the consequences of our choises thousands of miles away in our safe Canadian homes.
Having said that, I think Lia is right to say that it is incumbent on those who are Estonian citizens here to inform themselves of the issues. Maxim also brings up the important point of our function in balancing out the votes of the Russian minority - while likely not all that right in the human rights context, as an Estonian, this is one of the most important reasons to vote.
The right to vote doesn't incorporate an obligation to vote. Why should uninformed or indifferent citizens cast ballots? I'd say that voters have an obligation to acquaint themselves with the candidates and the issues before voting. Will the Estonian Central Council assist us in this respect?
If you call yourself "an Estonian" then passive indiference to elections in Estonia is not acceptable Our (meaning the Estonian) population is small. Every Estonian matters. Every vote matters. I would hope that it is every Estonian's free will and DESIRE (both in Estonia and abroad) to read, ask, and get information so that you will cast a meaningful vote. There really is no excuse.
kui inimene eesti keelt ei räägi... kas neil peaks olema õigus hääletada?
-kas üke põhitingimus eesti kodakondsuse omandamisel ei ole keele valdamine?
-miks on siis artikkel inglise keeles?
-kas üke põhitingimus eesti kodakondsuse omandamisel ei ole keele valdamine?
-miks on siis artikkel inglise keeles?
Possibly Maxim and Laas can confirm the numbers but it strikes me that there has to be at least 200,000 plus ruskies in the fatherland now that are citizens (passed the knowledge tests) and are eligible to vote. There are probably at least 20,000 Canadian Estonians by now but the number that bother to vote is probably less than 10% with a very high average age. I have problems with seeing how we can counterbalance the ethnic Russian vote and whether this in fact is desirable.
From style and content, Maxim can be spotted from quite a distance.
What is he trying to do, apart from look silly?
What is he trying to do, apart from look silly?
OK go ahead-make my day and vote Keskerakond.
????
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Is there a problem with the debate here? Could you please clarify. I'm not sure that your tone is all that friendly.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Is there a problem with the debate here? Could you please clarify. I'm not sure that your tone is all that friendly.
If you haven't had the occasion to visit this site over the past year, then you wouldn't know about all the mud-slinging that is designed to divert attention and energy from reproducing interesting comments to articles. The snyde ones are easy to pick up-you've just come across one of these types, and there are more where they came from. Let's strike a deal to ignore their stupidity and just discuss the subject in spite of their low IQ and jarred responses to our comments. ie-grow a thick skin-I have by now!
Fine by me.
What do the Eestlased in Eesti think of our voting in the election?
I can't imagine that I'd be happy with non-resident dual Canadians voting in our federal elections.
And another thing - if I'm able to vote for Estonian Riigikogu members does that also mean I'm entitled vote in maakonna elections? Just curious.
What do the Eestlased in Eesti think of our voting in the election?
I can't imagine that I'd be happy with non-resident dual Canadians voting in our federal elections.
And another thing - if I'm able to vote for Estonian Riigikogu members does that also mean I'm entitled vote in maakonna elections? Just curious.
No hassles about voting-it's never a subject that has even inspired an article in a local tabloid! But no doubt voting for the right party is important. More worrying is the issue of reclaiming property and having to short shrift tenants-that's a very thorny issue and has probably gone the farthest in producing animosity between local Estonians and Estonians abroad. There isn't an easy solution to that one either way. But concerning the initial subject, then as long as you vote with your concience, there shouldn't be a problem.
I agree Maxim=M=Anon . If not they are sharing the computer.
Five, ten minutes between comments. By the way this is what Maxim wrote recently, From EE Online archives.
Maxim. 21 Jan 2007 01:45
Teema: Lugemisvara (1)
" Soovitan kõigile käsile võtta Maret Ahronovichi viimast romaani mille tausta alus on just nimelt Ameerika Hääl. "
Siin on mis EPL online raamatukriitik Kivisildnik kirjutab,
" Väliseesti kirjandus pole kaua aega kogenud sellist ebaõnnestumist nagu Aronovichi Ameerika Hääle teemaline romaan. Viissada lehekülge kõige halvemat eesti proosat, millest soovitan võimalikult kaugele hoida. Paljutõotav materjal on ära solgitud, pole see ei ilukirjandus ega memuaarid, veel vähem dokumentalistika. " Siin on EPL "link".
http://www.epl.ee/kultuur/3715...
Muuseas , Maxim coudln't even get the authors name correct.
What a joke.
Five, ten minutes between comments. By the way this is what Maxim wrote recently, From EE Online archives.
Maxim. 21 Jan 2007 01:45
Teema: Lugemisvara (1)
" Soovitan kõigile käsile võtta Maret Ahronovichi viimast romaani mille tausta alus on just nimelt Ameerika Hääl. "
Siin on mis EPL online raamatukriitik Kivisildnik kirjutab,
" Väliseesti kirjandus pole kaua aega kogenud sellist ebaõnnestumist nagu Aronovichi Ameerika Hääle teemaline romaan. Viissada lehekülge kõige halvemat eesti proosat, millest soovitan võimalikult kaugele hoida. Paljutõotav materjal on ära solgitud, pole see ei ilukirjandus ega memuaarid, veel vähem dokumentalistika. " Siin on EPL "link".
http://www.epl.ee/kultuur/3715...
Muuseas , Maxim coudln't even get the authors name correct.
What a joke.
Tasub oodata kirjastuse vastukaja sellisele arvustusele. Vaevalt et nii kvaliteetne kirjastus nagu Varrak võtaks trükkida selline romaan mis on ettenähtud täieliku läbikukkumisele! Aga muidugi minu kriitikud otsivad igasugust laimu mu vastu, ja sellega olen ma juba harjunud, millele lisaks nad ise ei oska oma ajudega midagi välja nuputada ja jällegi panevad totaalselt puuse oma arvamuses et kolm isiksust on siin vaid üks ja sama inimene!!
Wow - cyber-vandalism occurs on the pages of the EE web too!!
This isn't the first time that Maxim has recommended something that he hasn't read himself. Previously, he directed our attention to a "genius" named Veispak who, upon inspection, looked like a self-congratulatory fool in Maxim's image.
To get back to the topic:
"I can't imagine that I'd be happy with non-resident dual Canadians voting in our federal elections."
Non-resident Canadians vote all the time in elections, I myself voted in the last federal elections without living in Canada from almost a year. As for maakonna elections, I believe you must be registered as a resident (sissekirjutatud) somewhere in Eesti in order to vote in those elections.
As Lia already said, voting in these elections is important, a country this size of Eesti can mean that 1 vote can make a big difference. If you're worried about being uneducated about the issues then get educated, come to Eesti maja tonight (Jan 30th, 7pm in keskminesaal) to see a couple of the candidates speak and read up about things on the internet, http://riigikogu.postimees.ee/... is a good place to start.
"I can't imagine that I'd be happy with non-resident dual Canadians voting in our federal elections."
Non-resident Canadians vote all the time in elections, I myself voted in the last federal elections without living in Canada from almost a year. As for maakonna elections, I believe you must be registered as a resident (sissekirjutatud) somewhere in Eesti in order to vote in those elections.
As Lia already said, voting in these elections is important, a country this size of Eesti can mean that 1 vote can make a big difference. If you're worried about being uneducated about the issues then get educated, come to Eesti maja tonight (Jan 30th, 7pm in keskminesaal) to see a couple of the candidates speak and read up about things on the internet, http://riigikogu.postimees.ee/... is a good place to start.
You need to be a registered resident of a riding to vote in a Canadian Federal Election. To do so otherwise is a federal offence.
Which riding did you vote in/for?
Which riding did you vote in/for?
It would have been good to have had a broader political representation than the one they've organized at Eesti Maja. Velliste made a successful switch from a previous Communist past (if he is willing at all to admit to his former communist connections....) Generally, there is quite a broad plethora of political scope in Estonia, but I doubt that it will all be given a fair oveview at the club house. Best to do some further homework and keep in touch with friends and relatives in Estonia as to how the political winds are currently blowing.
Canadians who have resided outside Canada for less than five consecutive years are eligible to vote in Federal Elections, regardless of whether they are currently registered as residents.
As for tonight's presentation, I believe that Juri-Karl Seim will be present representing Sotsiaaldemokraadid. It would be nice to a broader representation but not every party sends someone over here unfortunately.
As for tonight's presentation, I believe that Juri-Karl Seim will be present representing Sotsiaaldemokraadid. It would be nice to a broader representation but not every party sends someone over here unfortunately.
Yes it is 5 years. However, I've never lived in Estonia nor do intend to, yet I am still eligible to vote. I'm not sure that I would like someone in a similar situation voting in Canadian Federal elections.
My children are American citizens, yet they have never lived in the U.S. If they, and the thousands of others like them, voted in the U.S. federal elections, maybe the U.S. wouldn't be in such a sorry state.
Same goes for Eesti. If you are a citizen, and you care enough to declare yourself one, then you should a) be interrested enough to keep up on the happenings there and b) vote in the elections, to add your voice
An earlier commentator mentioned that this might balance (or at least go in that direction) the ethnic Russian vote
We need to stay interrested and we need to excercise our right to help shape the next government.
Same goes for Eesti. If you are a citizen, and you care enough to declare yourself one, then you should a) be interrested enough to keep up on the happenings there and b) vote in the elections, to add your voice
An earlier commentator mentioned that this might balance (or at least go in that direction) the ethnic Russian vote
We need to stay interrested and we need to excercise our right to help shape the next government.
What makes you think that your children and their peers could save America if they had the vote?
Why do you think " ...U.S. wouldn't be in such a sorry state." IMHO life in the US has never been better!
Were you dropped on your head as a baby? Your scrawlings read like the grafitti on the bathroom walls of a nuthouse. Go to a doctor. Get yourself checked out.Your behaviour is not normal.
I am truly sorry that you do not have a good and happy life. Life is what YOU make of it. Don't blame others for you failures.
Smile :-)
Smile :-)
What does IHMO mean?
I don't know about IHMO. If you mean IMHO , in my humble opinion.
In My Humble Opinion..... you are off topic
It's nice to see that non-resident Estonians are being urged to take the opportunity to exercise the right to vote.
Will young non-resident Estonian males also be encouraged to fulfill ther military obligations?
There is something to be said for informed non-residents casting their votes. The unfortunate truth is, that many, if not most, non-resident voters are under-informed, and will either vote the way someone tells them or not vote at all, rather than taking the time to become familiar with the issues faced on a daily basis by those who actually live in Estonia.
It can be difficult to do the research when language skills are weak and it's often hard to find the time to sit and read through all the material. Visiting a country rarely gives a thorough overview of day-to-day concerns.
I think the time has arrived that Estonia adopted the 5-year rule that Canada and many other countries have in effect.
Will young non-resident Estonian males also be encouraged to fulfill ther military obligations?
There is something to be said for informed non-residents casting their votes. The unfortunate truth is, that many, if not most, non-resident voters are under-informed, and will either vote the way someone tells them or not vote at all, rather than taking the time to become familiar with the issues faced on a daily basis by those who actually live in Estonia.
It can be difficult to do the research when language skills are weak and it's often hard to find the time to sit and read through all the material. Visiting a country rarely gives a thorough overview of day-to-day concerns.
I think the time has arrived that Estonia adopted the 5-year rule that Canada and many other countries have in effect.
Your point about military duty is of great moral importance.
I have often struggled with this question regarding my own citizenship and that of my children. After considerable deliberation on the question I came to the conclusion that while I intend to register my young children as citizens, I intend, when they become of age, to ask them to fulfill their duties as other young Estonians must fulfill theirs as a condition of citizenship.
As for my own moral duty, I have resolved to actively work towards the promotion of Estonian culture and issues abroad in lieu of militiary service. I realize that this isn't a legal option, but it does satisfy my own personal obligation.
Having said that, I am still conflicted about my obligation to vote in Estonian elections and the consequences of my decision on a country in which I do not and will not ever live in.
I have often struggled with this question regarding my own citizenship and that of my children. After considerable deliberation on the question I came to the conclusion that while I intend to register my young children as citizens, I intend, when they become of age, to ask them to fulfill their duties as other young Estonians must fulfill theirs as a condition of citizenship.
As for my own moral duty, I have resolved to actively work towards the promotion of Estonian culture and issues abroad in lieu of militiary service. I realize that this isn't a legal option, but it does satisfy my own personal obligation.
Having said that, I am still conflicted about my obligation to vote in Estonian elections and the consequences of my decision on a country in which I do not and will not ever live in.
Although I may not live in Estonia, my parents did and my children or grandchildren might in the future...All of us are fully bilingual in English and Estonian and have strong ties to friends and family who live in Estonia today.
Our home in this fragment of time in Canada does not undermine our committment to the well-being of Estonia and voting is a priority.
Our home in this fragment of time in Canada does not undermine our committment to the well-being of Estonia and voting is a priority.
If you, your children or granschildren move to Estonia it's certainly your right to vote - without any quesiton. But this fragment of time in Canada is a current reality that cannot be morally reasoned to be anything but that. Without a real commitment, by those of us who vote here, to live with the consequences, how can we morally justify the ramifications of our choices on others when we ourselves are completely unaffected?
Some own property there that they have inherited. They, therefore, have a vested interest.
As do I. I also own stock in some American companies, but I don't expect to be allowed to vote in US elections.
That's different, and you know it.
Property I may own, is my share in the country. I can vote to protect my interest there.
Your share in the US company also gives you a vote, but the country, in your case, is the company.
I own stock in a country, you own stock in a company.
Property I may own, is my share in the country. I can vote to protect my interest there.
Your share in the US company also gives you a vote, but the country, in your case, is the company.
I own stock in a country, you own stock in a company.
Fine. Then every Swede, Finn or Russian businessman who own land in Hiiumaa or a flat in Tallinn should then be able to vote as well? Or should Canada extend voting rights to Donald Trump because he owns a chunk of property in downtown Toronto?
Some Russians will be voting with citizenship acquired with a fraudulent certificate of Estonian language proficiency.
I intend to vote to cancel out the effect of his ballot.
I intend to vote to cancel out the effect of his ballot.
Based on your comment, I know dozens of people in Toronto who are Estonian citizens but can barely string together a 3 word Estonian sentence and are far less proficient than most under-30 Russians living in Estonia. Should these non-Estonian speaking, non-resident Toronto-Estonians be allowed to vote?
This is pointless discussion. All Estonian citizens have political rights. Where they live - does not matter. Screw election laws of Canada/USA/whaterver. Get sober.
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