Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
I think this interview is a little overblown in its attempt to get the Russian question out into the open. Ilves fell for the bait hook, line and sinker. I am surprised if Ilves' emotions intented to produce the result the BBC has intented to create, but it sounds to me as though Whewell is an agent provocateur. Ilves has been and seen the Eastern end of Estonia on many occasions, befriended school students and garnered enormous support as President. But in all honesty Ilves should be interested in speaking Russian, because there is an across the grain effect currently at work in Estonia. Many countless young Russians are learning and thirsting to speak in Estonian, and are equipping themselves more than adequately to deal with the local education system. Ilves' attitude is too outdated and does him a disservice. It's not hard learning Russian, especially when Ilves has so many good contacts among the Estonian/Russian community. I think this BBC piece is jacked up to be provocative to the extreme, and Ilves has been grossly misquoted on the subject. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the BBC is not a welcome guest anymore to press interviews with Ilves. It should not go unsaid that Ilves was against the removal of the bronze statue. However, Whewell seems to conveniently overlook that particular point in order not to stuff up his own logic.
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0Indeed, Ilves let his emotions get a hold of him. Had he simply said that he grew up overseas and wasn't exposed to Ruissan thus doesn't speak it or something similar this would be a non-story.
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0Why would Ilves have to learn Russian?
Would you expect the Prime Minister of Canada to learn Chinese, to better communicate with the large Chinese population in Canada?
Would you expect the Prime Minister of Britain to learn how to speak Hindi, because of the large population of Hindi speakers in England?
Estonia is not a bi-lingual country.
It's great that the young Russians are enthusiastically learning to speak Estonian! ... so they should, as should their parents and grandparents!
Would you expect the Prime Minister of Canada to learn Chinese, to better communicate with the large Chinese population in Canada?
Would you expect the Prime Minister of Britain to learn how to speak Hindi, because of the large population of Hindi speakers in England?
Estonia is not a bi-lingual country.
It's great that the young Russians are enthusiastically learning to speak Estonian! ... so they should, as should their parents and grandparents!
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0van Loan speaks French, but he needn't. It just so happens that although you can live much more comfortably with the Estonian language these days, there is absolutely no reason not to want to learn Russian in this day and age, especially taking into consideration the geopolitical location of Estonia. I still think Ilves gave a poor response to Whewell, but at the same time anyone who has lived consistently for 5 or more years in Estonia realizes that it is their best multicultural interests to know a basic level of Russian. I don't see that as a threat or a problem and neither should you.
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0I thought you had lived in Canada?
You might have noticed that Canada is officially a bilingual country.
Therefore politicians should most certainly endeavour to speak both languages.
I hope that Estonia never becomes bilingual.
In fact the Russian language should be discouraged at every turn.
You might have noticed that Canada is officially a bilingual country.
Therefore politicians should most certainly endeavour to speak both languages.
I hope that Estonia never becomes bilingual.
In fact the Russian language should be discouraged at every turn.
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0Estonia has forfeited her sovereignty and Constitution (let's be perfectly clear and honest about that fact!) to the overriding values of the European Constitution. If the EU decides something as important as language law, there is hardly a likelihood Estonia can work against the interests of a Constitution to which she willingly submitted. If and when the time comes, you can reflect on our correspondence right here and now in 2008!
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0So, Maxim tells us that, "Estonia has forfeited her sovereignty and Constitution (let's be perfectly clear and honest about that fact!)"
I say, let's be perfectly clear an honest about the fact that Maxim is wrong, yet again. Why? Because he doesn't know the meaning of the word 'forfeit'.
Maxim. This is the second time that you have barked at us for "forfeiting" something. The first time you told us that we've (sic.) "forfeited" our right to return to Estonia. That brought on a chorus of jeers and guffaws, and I would have thought that it would have made you look the word up in the dictionary. But no. You are insane enough to think that you know more than those know-nothings that compile dictionaries.
I say, let's be perfectly clear an honest about the fact that Maxim is wrong, yet again. Why? Because he doesn't know the meaning of the word 'forfeit'.
Maxim. This is the second time that you have barked at us for "forfeiting" something. The first time you told us that we've (sic.) "forfeited" our right to return to Estonia. That brought on a chorus of jeers and guffaws, and I would have thought that it would have made you look the word up in the dictionary. But no. You are insane enough to think that you know more than those know-nothings that compile dictionaries.
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0I'm entitled to my opinion! The people that compile dictionaries are entitled to theirs. Its not black or white were talking about here. Its angle of approach and I like the intellectual high road
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0Don't be the dunce !
Maxim, for all his warts, does hit key notes at times, and the question he implies/raises here is a very valid one.
What are Eestis tradeoffs with EU membership ?
Is it short term gain for long term loss ? ... Do you know ?
Eestis reform (party) based banker sellout mentality is a vulnerability which can destroy its legitimate history, if it does not put the EU 'constitution to referendum.
If that is not done, then the signing into one union can be equated as signing into another union.
To all eestlased, that should be unacceptable !
Maxim, for all his warts, does hit key notes at times, and the question he implies/raises here is a very valid one.
What are Eestis tradeoffs with EU membership ?
Is it short term gain for long term loss ? ... Do you know ?
Eestis reform (party) based banker sellout mentality is a vulnerability which can destroy its legitimate history, if it does not put the EU 'constitution to referendum.
If that is not done, then the signing into one union can be equated as signing into another union.
To all eestlased, that should be unacceptable !
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0Unfortunately the Lissabon declaration (which will bring about substantial changes to the EU constitution, thus overriding the original Estonian Republic's constitution) will get a unanimous vote from the Estonian Parliament, into whose hands to vote is trusted. I doubt they will vote against their own interests or the interests of the EU. Whether these interests collide with the will of the people, there I think we have a bit of a problem. But it doesn't seem to bother some people here, who continue to think I talk nonsense, and whoa blindly in love with anything as long as its not Russian!
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0Maxim. Earlier you say that, "Most people here find my comments enlightening and worth reflecting upon."
That sounds like b.s., Maxim, because the only letters of support that have ever appeared here have so obviously been composed by none other than Maxim himself. It's time to grow up and do some self-reflection Maxim.
That sounds like b.s., Maxim, because the only letters of support that have ever appeared here have so obviously been composed by none other than Maxim himself. It's time to grow up and do some self-reflection Maxim.
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0You are entitled to believe as you wish, and for your information, I am always surprised, when I come here and find yet another posting under the name of "Maxim" that wasn't even written by me! People just take up the baton of common ideals and run with it. I think the message that Maxim has propagated here is bearing good fruit, and your miserly criticizm will get you absolutely nowhere. There are growing numbers of readers who come here and say "though I don't always agree with what Maxim says, in this case he makes a very good point". And this comment comes up time and again, against which you have nothing to contribute. Why don't you write something on the original subject for starters, and then we can take it from there.
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0Maxim Says, "There are growing numbers of readers who come here and say "though I don't always agree with what Maxim says, in this case he makes a very good point".
Maxim. You can't show us even one example of this to prove your point.
Maxim. You can't show us even one example of this to prove your point.
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0Go back four squares and feel like a complete idiot!
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0Pardon me, Maxim..... I should have specified an example that you didn't compose yourself.
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0Fifty years of debased degradation have had an effect on the kodu eestlase world view.
Such self-loathing usually expresses itself in perversely inappropriate decision making and justifications therefor. This is why some women return, time and again, to the husbands that beat them. This is why some men will repeatedly drink or drug themselves long past the slap-happy sleep-it-off bounds of normal recreation.
And it is why a significant part of the Estonian population earnestly believes that joining the EU was a big mistake.
It may even be why Maxim keeps coming back here for more.
Such self-loathing usually expresses itself in perversely inappropriate decision making and justifications therefor. This is why some women return, time and again, to the husbands that beat them. This is why some men will repeatedly drink or drug themselves long past the slap-happy sleep-it-off bounds of normal recreation.
And it is why a significant part of the Estonian population earnestly believes that joining the EU was a big mistake.
It may even be why Maxim keeps coming back here for more.
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0The writing's on the wall for you my friend. For starters, I don't think anyone here understands a thing you're trying to say! Secondly, a life in and out of the fathomless depths of voyeurism has obviously taken it toll in your case. You are completely flipped!!!
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0Ilves shouldn't speak Russian in public as a matter of principle. Estonians have a legitimate grudge against the communist occupier who made Russian the dominant language in Estonia for a half-century.
Today, Russia is in shambles. Putin would like to restore the (Potemkin) grandeur of the Soviet Union. As a part of that, he'd like to see Russian as an official language, in the states that the Soviets once occupied, and as the second language in its "sphere of influence", i.e. Russia's neighbours.
Too bad for Putin. People learn languages that are the most useful to them. In Russia, Estonia and Quebec, that's English.
Pray for Russia. If life there resembled life in Estonia, Poland or Romania, some of Estonia's Russians just might move there.
Today, Russia is in shambles. Putin would like to restore the (Potemkin) grandeur of the Soviet Union. As a part of that, he'd like to see Russian as an official language, in the states that the Soviets once occupied, and as the second language in its "sphere of influence", i.e. Russia's neighbours.
Too bad for Putin. People learn languages that are the most useful to them. In Russia, Estonia and Quebec, that's English.
Pray for Russia. If life there resembled life in Estonia, Poland or Romania, some of Estonia's Russians just might move there.
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0It seems obvious that you are still hung up on the matter of Russia as an occupier. If Estonia is genuinely free, there is no need to continue to live under the strain of knee-jerk reactions against Russia. Life should move on quickly not only economically, but also culturally, and that means having the freedom to objectively view how to bridge civil gaps, and to stop using Russia and its language as a pestilence. Reality shows this is no longer the case.
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0I can't see that in the future there is anything standing in the way of the European Union changing some of its laws, including language laws the reflect the demographics of the various countries. I can see a very big push, for instance, in France that Arabic be granted official status as one of the country's national languages. Once this goes through, then there is every prospect that Russian will be "inflicted" on the Baltics as a second language. I have no reason to suppose this flies in the face of EU interests. There are some levels of accomodation in economic matters that the EU is willing to negotiate, but it seems to me that cultural shifts will cause a lot more friction than many currently imagine.
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0[i]I can see a very big push, for instance, in France that Arabic be granted official status as one of the country's national languages.[i]
If you think that Arabic will ever become an official language in France you need to get your crystal ball checked.
If you think that Arabic will ever become an official language in France you need to get your crystal ball checked.
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0With the use of slang and ambiguous language, Maxim can create the impression that he is saying something substantial. Upon a thoughtful second reading, the emptiness of his comments are unmistakable. Maxim is a vain and dull-witted figure.
I hope that by saying so will not put him back into attack-mode against us.
I hope that by saying so will not put him back into attack-mode against us.
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0Of course not, because it is only your opinion. Most people here find my comments enlightening and worth reflecting upon. That you are not in that category only means that you have a different angle on things Estonian. There is nothing wrong with that. It's just that time has moved on in the last 60 years, and time-warping Estonian style has gone out of fashion about 17 years ago.
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0Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.
