Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
So, interesting to get a summary of what happened over the years... but that took time... and left only 15 to 20 minutes of Q/A... that was not a good thing.
I have a few comments.
Good question posed.. why did the 4 boards not have a competition between Estonian Architects.. especially since they were promoting this as the glorious future for Estonian Society.
Next... I believe Veltmann who shouted move out of your parents house... is a board member and should have indicated that when she took the mic. Of course she is pro moving...
Voting on this is less than a month away in April... and we learned the bank took SHARES when they loaned the funds to the Estonian House.. not sure why they did not put a lien on the asset like they would if I asked for a loan. And then we hear that the committees are going to eliminate the shares LEGALLY so the NEW Estonian community Centre is not saddled with them. ... so how will the new asset will be managed (I cannot recall if they mentioned that) or what will the new the new ownership structure look like... no hand outs or copy of slides. So... the bank really has useless shares that will disappear as collateral.
This is a bit of a concern to me.
Finally the impassioned plea from Silvi Verder on how many Estonian School students come from outskirts and it takes Slivi an hour and half to get to the Estonian house and Tartu College would be an even longer commute. The committees say they will have drop off and pickup area.. I can just see the line of cars along Madison waiting their turn.
I guess this is all a mute point because it seems that that the majority of shares are owned by the 4 parties working as a team to Move the Estonian community to Tartu College... area.
So... enjoy the old building for as long as you can... But I will say... if it was managed properly over the years... it would not have fallen into disrepair.. and if they would start to Market the premises then maybe Sihtkapital could reduce their subsidies...
Actually.. that is perhaps the best plan....
Sihitkapital should start to manage the asset's marketing... so as to reduce the subsidies... they have more of a stake then the managers or the board members on poor revenue performance of the Estonian house
Did you know that catering companies struggle to find venues for their clients. Many Venues have their "list of caterers".. one could create flyer and mail to caterers.... heck... take photos and get a student to make a flyer of the rental spaces... It shocked me on how much is being subsidized... thank you...
So why is there ZERO marketing???
At the meeting.. the board shows slides of lack of revenue.. hey Board... you market yourselves... but not the venues... you should market the Estonian House that you have been tasked to manage.
To me this is a very sad time in our community...
I have a few comments.
Good question posed.. why did the 4 boards not have a competition between Estonian Architects.. especially since they were promoting this as the glorious future for Estonian Society.
Next... I believe Veltmann who shouted move out of your parents house... is a board member and should have indicated that when she took the mic. Of course she is pro moving...
Voting on this is less than a month away in April... and we learned the bank took SHARES when they loaned the funds to the Estonian House.. not sure why they did not put a lien on the asset like they would if I asked for a loan. And then we hear that the committees are going to eliminate the shares LEGALLY so the NEW Estonian community Centre is not saddled with them. ... so how will the new asset will be managed (I cannot recall if they mentioned that) or what will the new the new ownership structure look like... no hand outs or copy of slides. So... the bank really has useless shares that will disappear as collateral.
This is a bit of a concern to me.
Finally the impassioned plea from Silvi Verder on how many Estonian School students come from outskirts and it takes Slivi an hour and half to get to the Estonian house and Tartu College would be an even longer commute. The committees say they will have drop off and pickup area.. I can just see the line of cars along Madison waiting their turn.
I guess this is all a mute point because it seems that that the majority of shares are owned by the 4 parties working as a team to Move the Estonian community to Tartu College... area.
So... enjoy the old building for as long as you can... But I will say... if it was managed properly over the years... it would not have fallen into disrepair.. and if they would start to Market the premises then maybe Sihtkapital could reduce their subsidies...
Actually.. that is perhaps the best plan....
Sihitkapital should start to manage the asset's marketing... so as to reduce the subsidies... they have more of a stake then the managers or the board members on poor revenue performance of the Estonian house
Did you know that catering companies struggle to find venues for their clients. Many Venues have their "list of caterers".. one could create flyer and mail to caterers.... heck... take photos and get a student to make a flyer of the rental spaces... It shocked me on how much is being subsidized... thank you...
So why is there ZERO marketing???
At the meeting.. the board shows slides of lack of revenue.. hey Board... you market yourselves... but not the venues... you should market the Estonian House that you have been tasked to manage.
To me this is a very sad time in our community...
39
14Some rambling thoughts from a 905'er
I attended the meeting last night as well and was quite impressed with the overall presentation. The background portion went a bit long, but the new vision is quite impressive and the amount of work and approvals they have already received is great to see.
I agree that it would have been nice to get some more Q&A but there wasn't that many people lined up for questions anyways, I think only one person who was in line didn't make it to the microphone.
In regards to commute - I come from the west and yes getting to the Estonian house can be quite an ordeal. Will Tartu College site be a little more inconvenient? Sure. But for me it is not a dealbreaker. I think maybe it will add 10 minutes at the most. Parking and taking transit in is something I would consider. It would not really add to the commute in when you take heavy gardiner traffic into account.
Will parking be slightly farther away, and cost money? Sure. But again, it looks like there are plenty of options within a block or two. Perhaps the underground parking (30 spots?) can be somehow reserved for senior citizens to make it easier on them? Frankly the parking at Eesti Maja shouldnt be free anyways - they should at least be charging a couple of bucks to help cover costs.
My main concern is the size of the overall building and the spaces inside. In the drawings it looked very impressive. Lots of flexible space which I think is very important - and it was nice to see a sizable hall that can be used for sports, aktused, and weddings. I guess they'd need some sort of roll flooring that can be put down when needed?
The seating capacities though I am very skeptical of. If I remember correctly they stated 288 spots for aktused and 320 for weddings. That seems overly generous considering the current parking lot is not a lot bigger than the suur saal at EM currently?
I'd love to see a 3D rendering of this building and floorplans with measurements so I can get a better handle on the true size of the rooms.
There seemed to be a lot of talk about class A retail space that could be rented - I'm a bit skeptical about this as well. Would much rather see it kept Estonian and not have dry cleaners or other retail in there. Keep it for space for us to use.
A cafe/bar would be really cool.
As part of this deal will the basement level of TC be refreshed as well? Will there be a connection between the two structures to integrate them, or are they completely separate buildings that just happen to be beside each other? I would assume that basement level korpi toad could be utilized as classrooms for the eesti koolid as well.
I do think that the EM board (and the other 4 groups) have our best interests at heart and are truly trying to find the best solution that they possibly can. These men and women are in a no win situation and no matter what happens they will piss off half the community, but I for one put my trust into them, and appreciate the countless hours of work they have put into trying to preserve our heritage.
I look forward to hearing much more about this project and potentially helping out in some way to realize this goal.
I attended the meeting last night as well and was quite impressed with the overall presentation. The background portion went a bit long, but the new vision is quite impressive and the amount of work and approvals they have already received is great to see.
I agree that it would have been nice to get some more Q&A but there wasn't that many people lined up for questions anyways, I think only one person who was in line didn't make it to the microphone.
In regards to commute - I come from the west and yes getting to the Estonian house can be quite an ordeal. Will Tartu College site be a little more inconvenient? Sure. But for me it is not a dealbreaker. I think maybe it will add 10 minutes at the most. Parking and taking transit in is something I would consider. It would not really add to the commute in when you take heavy gardiner traffic into account.
Will parking be slightly farther away, and cost money? Sure. But again, it looks like there are plenty of options within a block or two. Perhaps the underground parking (30 spots?) can be somehow reserved for senior citizens to make it easier on them? Frankly the parking at Eesti Maja shouldnt be free anyways - they should at least be charging a couple of bucks to help cover costs.
My main concern is the size of the overall building and the spaces inside. In the drawings it looked very impressive. Lots of flexible space which I think is very important - and it was nice to see a sizable hall that can be used for sports, aktused, and weddings. I guess they'd need some sort of roll flooring that can be put down when needed?
The seating capacities though I am very skeptical of. If I remember correctly they stated 288 spots for aktused and 320 for weddings. That seems overly generous considering the current parking lot is not a lot bigger than the suur saal at EM currently?
I'd love to see a 3D rendering of this building and floorplans with measurements so I can get a better handle on the true size of the rooms.
There seemed to be a lot of talk about class A retail space that could be rented - I'm a bit skeptical about this as well. Would much rather see it kept Estonian and not have dry cleaners or other retail in there. Keep it for space for us to use.
A cafe/bar would be really cool.
As part of this deal will the basement level of TC be refreshed as well? Will there be a connection between the two structures to integrate them, or are they completely separate buildings that just happen to be beside each other? I would assume that basement level korpi toad could be utilized as classrooms for the eesti koolid as well.
I do think that the EM board (and the other 4 groups) have our best interests at heart and are truly trying to find the best solution that they possibly can. These men and women are in a no win situation and no matter what happens they will piss off half the community, but I for one put my trust into them, and appreciate the countless hours of work they have put into trying to preserve our heritage.
I look forward to hearing much more about this project and potentially helping out in some way to realize this goal.
15
19You must be single...
If you had a family and kids.. you would look at this differently.
Madison is a one way street... even if they offer drop-off/pickup in front of the venue.. there would be a HUGE line of cars backed up.. because each child could not be left unattended in the open air common space out front...
This is just insane.. and parking, though they showed a lovely map of how there really is parking.. will be expensive and time consuming to navigate the neighbourhood with extensive one way streets and no not enter sign in proliferation...
If you had a family and kids.. you would look at this differently.
Madison is a one way street... even if they offer drop-off/pickup in front of the venue.. there would be a HUGE line of cars backed up.. because each child could not be left unattended in the open air common space out front...
This is just insane.. and parking, though they showed a lovely map of how there really is parking.. will be expensive and time consuming to navigate the neighbourhood with extensive one way streets and no not enter sign in proliferation...
24
14Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Thoughts from the Meeting (06:41)
Good post, lots of good points.
You write: 'The seating capacities though I am very skeptical of. If I remember correctly they stated 288 spots for aktused and 320 for weddings. That seems overly generous considering the current parking lot is not a lot bigger than the suur saal at EM currently?"
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Kongats say at the mtg that the placement of the southern wall of the Madison bldg is not certain? Depending on what the City wants, that it could be such that the bldg footprint may be even smaller? If that is the case, it would stand to logic then that the large hall may be smaller too in the end. Isn't it typical that such presentations offer bldg renderings showing the most grandiose option? That is my experience.
Would like someone to clear up this point of the bldg ftprint being possibly smaller (and therefore large hall having a smaller capacity for people).
You write: 'The seating capacities though I am very skeptical of. If I remember correctly they stated 288 spots for aktused and 320 for weddings. That seems overly generous considering the current parking lot is not a lot bigger than the suur saal at EM currently?"
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Kongats say at the mtg that the placement of the southern wall of the Madison bldg is not certain? Depending on what the City wants, that it could be such that the bldg footprint may be even smaller? If that is the case, it would stand to logic then that the large hall may be smaller too in the end. Isn't it typical that such presentations offer bldg renderings showing the most grandiose option? That is my experience.
Would like someone to clear up this point of the bldg ftprint being possibly smaller (and therefore large hall having a smaller capacity for people).
10
6I was at the same meeting and there was no mention about the bank taking shares for its loans. This is inaccurate.
It was a good meeting. While many questions were answered, no doubt some remain. It is a complex undertaking, so it wish those undertaking the task much stamina!
It was a good meeting. While many questions were answered, no doubt some remain. It is a complex undertaking, so it wish those undertaking the task much stamina!
9
8I'm definitely not single and I do have kids and make the trek at least twice a week.
In regards for drop-off, I'm sure that something could be figured out such as having a teacher or volunteer receive the kids at the drop-off point from 6:45-7:15 and make sure they get inside safely. This is how they do it at my kids kiss & ride drop-off at school.
In regards for drop-off, I'm sure that something could be figured out such as having a teacher or volunteer receive the kids at the drop-off point from 6:45-7:15 and make sure they get inside safely. This is how they do it at my kids kiss & ride drop-off at school.
10
5Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: A 905'r (14:37)
Well... I was at the back of the room and I clearly hear just over 10% of shares.
Perhaps... you just missed it.
I do not hear any bank representative denying it here on-line.
I am mean.. if the organizations want to be transparent finally they can reply as a representative of the tulivik community and reply to in inaccuracies.
Perhaps... you just missed it.
I do not hear any bank representative denying it here on-line.
I am mean.. if the organizations want to be transparent finally they can reply as a representative of the tulivik community and reply to in inaccuracies.
2
1Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Thoughts from the Meeting (06:41), to 905'r (16:10)
I was not commenting on the drop off being setup and managed by the teachers or voulunteers..
I am commenting on Madison being a one way street where the whole street is typically lined with parked cars.
So when you arrive to drop off your kids you will be at the end of a long long line of cars... perhaps banking arriving a half hour before class starts to as to be first to drop off the kids... this will be a congestion nightmare.. and pickup could be easier.. parents can walk the kids back to the cars.. but the drop off will be chaotic.. and for sure the residents on that street will not appreciate a stream of cars lining up blocking them.
I am commenting on Madison being a one way street where the whole street is typically lined with parked cars.
So when you arrive to drop off your kids you will be at the end of a long long line of cars... perhaps banking arriving a half hour before class starts to as to be first to drop off the kids... this will be a congestion nightmare.. and pickup could be easier.. parents can walk the kids back to the cars.. but the drop off will be chaotic.. and for sure the residents on that street will not appreciate a stream of cars lining up blocking them.
5
3Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Thoughts from the Meeting (06:41), to 905'r (16:10), to Another attendee ... (07:41)
Would it not be logical to change the school to Saturday morning and have all activities then ? Driving in tuesday evenings to Broadview and home late was never easy for parents or kids !
7
7Sadly not because of no free rooms for esto school on Saturdays.There are rooms for eesti lasteaed only. Eesti kool needs at least 7 classroom at same time and small hall too.Our adult classes use noorteruum and Kalevi tuba on Tuesdays beacause no more free space.
10
4Saturdays- same time as lasteaed guides/scouts are doing their activities at noorteruum and Baptist church.It will be conflict of timing if all 4 organizations are in Esto House and half of kids belong to the other group too same time.Too long day for esto school students and guides/scouts - 4 hours from 10-2.
9
3Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Eesti kool (09:50)
Saturday mornings in the new building of course ..not the old one ! Driving and parking would be easier , logically!
5
5from the president of EKN we get...via twitter
"Very impressed by the beautiful new drawings unveiled for the potential new Estonian Cultural Center on Madison Ave in Toronto by Alar Kongats at the Estonian House last night.
I am very thankful for the hard work that all of these groups have put into these community center projects.
I hope that active Estonian community members - especially the volunteers and parents who develop and carry out community programs - step up to join the board of Estonian House at their AGM to ensure that community organizations and stakeholders help guide the future of the Estonian community center in the GTA!
Just to note The Estonian Central Council does not endorse any specific project or group but does strongly encourage civil and respectful dialogue."
But then again EKN has MOVED to TC. Then WHY the non-committal statement?
"Very impressed by the beautiful new drawings unveiled for the potential new Estonian Cultural Center on Madison Ave in Toronto by Alar Kongats at the Estonian House last night.
I am very thankful for the hard work that all of these groups have put into these community center projects.
I hope that active Estonian community members - especially the volunteers and parents who develop and carry out community programs - step up to join the board of Estonian House at their AGM to ensure that community organizations and stakeholders help guide the future of the Estonian community center in the GTA!
Just to note The Estonian Central Council does not endorse any specific project or group but does strongly encourage civil and respectful dialogue."
But then again EKN has MOVED to TC. Then WHY the non-committal statement?
6
4Correction Quote was from another social media source.
2
1Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Karl Otsa (12:46)
This was the shortest Q & A one could ever have concerning the most important decision that our community will ever face. You claim to allow community involvement, yet the moderator cut-off the question period at 9:30 pm. Why was the question period so short and why was the next person waiting not allowed to ask a question? Is it because she is a Laikve or is it because she is a successful business woman?
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8Not only a Town Hall in Name Only, but a private meeting for the Estonian Community Only, in English only. That rule was deftly invoked at the outset as if we were at EstDocs. Estonians need to stop associating the board leaders with better times and recognize that this is serious business. Can anyone be sure anyone has understood what they will be voting on at the next shareholders' meeting?
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4Kommentaarid sellele artiklile on suletud.
