Not sure what Meiusi's point is, other than to be a you know what disturber.
He seems to be saying that there has been a conspiratorial plot among the three organizations to consolidate at Tartu all along. Even if this "conspiracy" theory is true, which is not clear, is this the absolutely worst thing for our community at this time? I'm not sure what that 2 storey to 6 storey comparison is supposed to mean. Is Meiusi saying he is putting up the money to build 6 storeys of community space at 958 Broadview to replace the existing building that everyone agrees is on life support? If so I am all ears and would like to hear the details of this plan.

unfortunately, EH is cash poor and has to do what other boards tell it to do. If the bank and ESK are not interests in financing the sick patient, the only thing left is suicide.

Allan Meiusi is nothing, if not energetic! To his great discredit, however, he's destructive.
With a relentless campaign of harassment spanning two years, he impaired operations, at Ehatare.
There's no guessing at his motives, this time around, but we better be cautious.

Kui palju uus unistus maksab?

So let me get this straight. The bank bought 11 Madison property, hoping that they can use it for office during EH renovations. https://www.estoniancu.com/pre...

Looks like the bank did not do their due diligence, they should have known the zoning issues before the purchase. Are they now trying to save face, by spinning it as a foresighted decision for new Estonian center? Or is it all smoke and mirrors?

As I understand it, the Official Plan made it very clear with respect to height restriction. Anything outside that would require OMB. Further the Local Residential Groups made it very clear that they would fight any high rise development and finally there were some shareholders with development experience that clearly stated "this will not fly". It reminds me of this one joke: this guy is driving down the street complaining to God about how he is not giving him any signs as to what he should be doing with his life. As he's driving along, sign after sign is saying "don't proceed/danger ahead/caution". Well he drives off the bridge...up in heaven he says "God, why didn't you show me any signs". God replies..I did, you just decided to ignore them.

Hasti kirjutatud Allan!
Kas oled tana ohtul panga koosolekul?

Respectfully, I am not a drama queen but rather a concerned eesti maja voter. As for 'bashing' the organizations and community never offering a solution - this is incorrect. They have never asked people to provide ALTERNATIVE solutions. All they want to hear are ideas relating to their decision. There are other lands owned by these organizations/ other means of obtaining funds, yet none of this has been explored. Please do not reply back with a comment like "if you have a solution then provide it", because I do and I will. Thnx

Thank you!

How did Meiusi's activism make Ehatare a better place?
First, he tried to topple the Board and have it replaced by one that would re-hire a dismissed employee.
When that failed, he lead a campaign of revenge and sabotage.
What good did that do?
It's also fair to ask, what good is he doing now?

You ask some good questions. Here are some other angles:

Q. What if Estonian House Limited shareholders were told to buy 11 Madison from ETCU? Monetary benefit?

A. The ETCU would make money. But wouldn't the ETCU would get the same monetary benefit from selling 11 Madison whether from another non-Esto seller? So it’s hardly a conflict of interest. They don’t need Eesti Maja to make money off that house. Same with ESK. They will make money off their properties regardless of whether the Esto House is sold or not.

Q. Tartu College - Since museum revenues are next to nil, how does the debt get serviced?

A. Pretty sure Tartu services its debt by renting the 400 odd student residents suites it manages. It has a way better cash flow than a 100+ year old building with a leaky hall. I have heard zero news that they are in any type of financial trouble.

Q. The boards of three Estonian organizations apparently agree that a move to Madison is critically needed, the fourth board seems to be following its real leaders. But who’s interest is best being served?

A. It appears all players get something. Esto House a solution to its house poor situation and major capital repair backlog, the bank gets a shiny new branch, the charity doesn’t have to sink funds into keeping a 100+ year old building afloat, and Tartu gets the same benefit it gets by building a museum, breathing life into our community. Finally, and most importantly the community gets a centre that will serve it well for the long term and is supported by it's major institutions.

Q. Who’s financial house has the most financial obligations and potential risk?

A. Esto house. It makes almost no money and has a huge capital repair backlog. Tartu has long term and sustainable business model. It may have more debt, but that’s because it has more revenue. I wouldn’t give a McDonalds cashier the same type of loan I would give a teacher with a job for life. It also makes sense that Tartu would seek a loan from our community bank. Same reason I would get a mortgage from ETCU. Its our community bank.

Q. Why is assuming greater debt downtown, on a smaller piece of land, that is restricted to fewer floors, situated on top of two subway lines, in a neighbourhood where the residents are more organized and vocal than upper Riverdale, considered more attractive and less risky?

A. Because there aren't really any other obvious options. Renovating esto house is just a lot of bake sales and half-baked schemes. There is no money on the table to fix the place up. There is also the big risk at 958 Broadview that at the end of the day the bank could say, screw it we are done with operating out of third floor branch with a leaky roof that's cold in the winter and hot in the summer and decides to build itself a brand new highly visible branch on busy Bloor with lots of nearby students looking to open their first bank accounts. It's probably the right business decision for the bank to move and the Esto House loses it's biggest tenant and it's cooked.

How do you get a fixed up esto house, modern facilities up to code, sparkling new bank branch without a developer or some major source of revenue like the sale of an asset?

Overall the fact that the community organizations may benefit from the project doesn't mean that there are nefarious conflicts of interests. What there is, is an option on the table that strengthens our organizations which at the end of the day strengths our community. That should be embraced.

For years.. and I mean years the Estonian House has been mismanaged.
Either by incompetent managers OR most likely by a board that did not want to upgrade the facility as required.

I am certain they all knew it needed a new roof. And anyone who has any knowledge in Asset Management knows that you can get funding if the work done increases the value of the asset.

Yet, I will say it again.. there has never been proper marketing of the Estonian House. Even now.. the coffee shop can be rented out for intimate venue.. but is not on the list of rentable space.

The caterer who managed it before has shut down but still uses the facility for FREE... where there are mulitple kitchens, washers and dryers... and when the Estonian House does a fund raiser bake sale.. she sets up shop and sells her own goods ... which affects the bake sale.

Now we all love the caterer... and the food is delicious.. but the Estonian house is a BUSINESS ... and such should have tenants OR in this case, PAST tenant... to stop using the facilities if she is not paying... and really the oldest fridges..
they say that a new fridge will pay for it self in lower energy costs right within a short period of time.

The Crystal hall now has 2 sinks in it.. seems that space will be rented shortly for again.... not sure if our community will continue to have access.. but hearsay is that the rent is way to low.

The reality is the Allan Meiusi have given us facts.

And I for one am happy for that.. and to bring up Ehatare is insane.

Years after Rosi was gone.. the residents still cried due to missing her.

To say when 4 people put their names in as new board members... that they would ruin Ehatare, is insane.. the 4 would NOT have had majority vote. So please.. do not be a drama queen.

This just shows that many of our Estonian organizations are incestuous.

One leaves a board position and the rest of the board already picks the next board member... no real vote..

look at Ehatare proxy... you have not choice but who they recommend. Please.. our community organizations have shown they are not for democracy but protectionism...

Sadly, this really means they all believe they "know best".

And it is clear they do not.

The issue was not Rosi being terminated.. but the arrogance of the board who put out a notice when shock of the termination was announced...

It was their arrogance in saying.. "we know best"

Thus, Ehatare has a board who decides who the next board members are and ONLY presents them. I belive one has to get over 25 signatures (or more) from exsisting members to be able to get your name on the nominating list.

Can you say protectionism!

Also.. back when all the Rosi termination stuff happened... 3 millon dollars were transferred from Ehatare books to a new charitable organization I think call Ehatare Foundation...

I might go look to see if the funds are still there or gone missing... this was supposed to be the funds to a NEW Ehatare... Again... seems that this too did not happen... but the 3 millon dollars... and only 2 people listed on the filing.. the past president and the past treasurer

To me.. is seems that our society is out for themselves and not really for the community ... and this is super sad.

And I for one believe we keep the asset we have because if we get the right people on the board we can straighten this all out.... but then... who can out vote the combined group?

I am not involved in the Esto community at all, but am a proud Estonian. For anyone on the outside of this weird and crazy dialogue of "what ifs" happening here, TC, EM, ESK and ECU in fact ARE the most integral and visible parts of the community. They support absolutely everything else in a huge way. If this proposal is endorsed by them, and it's in their interest, it's in OUR interest as Canadian Estonians. I am in favour.

It's not just any lot. It's the lot right next to the other major centre of our community.

The Ehatare mismanagement is a separate issue. We need to focus on the EM2 issue at hand with a critical mind and clarity, since there is so much at stake.

As with the first Young Shareholder, I am doubtful that the EM board can pull this off given their three recent failures. When the EM is criticized by experts as being awkward and challenging to refurbish due to the heritage building, what happens next? Another heritage building is bought, then a second property with massive complications owing to the subway is bought.

The price tag is absolutely enormous for a new awkward building with a public space for drunken frat boys. The location is very inconvenient. I would not go to the bank to deposit a cheque or exchange currencies there, this would involve a minimum of two hours return trip driving (and not even counting time spent looking for pay parking) during business hours and I live in Toronto! So, I would pull my money out of the bank if they move to Madison. This location would likely also put off our seniors, since the walk from the subway is substantial, as would be car parking.

Another issue is that this is a hugely risky endeavour, given warnings about Toronto's real estate bubble bursting. There are examples of Toronto ethnic community houses failing, such as the Hellenic Center near Warden Costco, that was never completed, but then bought by the Jain community. The Jain house is still not operational, to my knowledge. So thing can and do go sideways in these situations, even if the management has good intentions.

I don't see the vision for EM2 on Madison matching the community use that the current EM does. The lasketiir will be gone, seniors and 905'ers alienated, and it will not be 'our house' - do we really think that an Esto business will occupy the cafe at high rent? A coffee chain such as Second Cup would likely be a tenant who could afford the high rent that the board is saying they will charge.

As for the future ownership of the EM2, it was shocking that Ellen did not have a clear answer at the town hall meeting. Is the lack of an answer due to lack of proper planning? This would be extreme dereliction of duty by the board. Or is the lack of an answer given that night due to the possibility that the actual answer may be very distasteful to the current shareholders?

I do not have confidence in the board, and I don't trust them. I don't think they can pull this off. As such, I am hoping that if EM is sold, shareholders will be offered an 'exit', whereby we can take the value out and put the dollars toward a better managed organization in the Esto community.

In The Wrath of Khan (1982), Spock says, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or the one.”

‘The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few’ are well known words to any Trekkie and indeed anyone who has simply dropped into that universe to watch a few of the movies. They are synonymous with self-sacrifice and in the context of ‘The Wrath of Khan’ can be perceived as truly heroic. However, what may be true in one beautiful instance, in which an individual gives his life to save his friends, may not be true when extended to a wider context.

When looked at from another perspective, however, the ‘needs of the many’ is not just dangerous; it’s cruel and even frightening. Nyota Uhura addresses this darker side to the Vulcan philosophy in ‘Star Trek: Of Gods and Men’ when she comments that history is ‘filled with groups who have decided that their needs were more important than others. The result: slavery, genocide.’

Another word for ‘the many’ is, of course, the ‘majority’. The majority has a loud voice and loud voices tend to be heard. ‘The few’ is obviously the ‘minority’. The voice of the minority is softer, sometimes so soft it is almost silent but that doesn’t mean that these whispered words carry no meaning. In saying that ‘The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few’, it is effectively being argued that it is only logical and right for the majority to neglect the needs of the minority.

In the big wide world ‘the few or the one’ is not a hero bravely sacrificing themselves for the good of their crew, they are the silent sectors of society who are classified as ‘different’ or even ‘marginal’. They have no choice in the sacrifices they make; they are coerced into making sacrifices everyday in the name of the majority and the societal expectations that are forced upon them.

In many instances, the minority is regarded solely in terms of that which makes them different. This separation between ‘them’ and ‘us’ is very dangerous. It can be dehumanising, reframing the ‘other’ as deviant or inferior. This is the basis of emotional and physical violence that can be perpetrated against minorities. Those who happily fall into the standard of acceptability feel somehow entitled to abuse those who, through no fault of their own, fall outside of what is perceived to be ‘normal’.

Even where individual abuse or violence is not an issue the majority who refuses to listen to the needs of the few is still a bully. In an environment where the majority is closed minded and ignorant, they will force their opinions and perspectives upon those who may be ill equipped to defend themselves. If we go back to the example of the ‘The Wrath of Khan’, had Kirk used his power as the Captain of Enterprise to force Spock to sacrifice himself, on the basis of his being alien, the tone of the movie would have been drastically altered.

The biggest battle that we face in our social evolution is the path towards equality and unity, the many and the few need to join together to become the one. Unity alone, however, is nor enough, we have to learn to accept that while ‘we’ should stand together, ‘we’ will always be made up of hundreds of millions unique individuals. Each one of these individuals has their own life, voice and inherent worth.

I realized after I posted my comment that it was ambiguous. My apologies. Going back to Ehatare/Abistamiskomitee days, a person (name not to be mentioned but we can guess who) filed anonymous complaints with many ministries and government authorities. An incredible amount of time was spent resolving these. To Meiusi - I challenge him to build instead of destroy. I am somewhat amused, as he's a wannabe investigative reporter. I am not sure to what end. To me, our community is small. What he styles as conflicts might be viewed as normal dealings by others. While the entities might have dealings, many of us also belong to multiple organizations? Thus, are we all conflicted? I smile at the wannabe investigative reporter.

I don't think Meiusi realizes he is the bull-in-the-china-shop. I don't think he realizes that when he speaks in Estonian, he barely comprehensible. I don't think he realizes he comes across as an a-hole in person and in the written word. His father was very rich and he inherited much. What he did not inherit was his father's business and social skills.

It's unfortunate that the very sensitive subject of selling Esto House for the newest plan has been fraught with some misinformation and speculation. But who can blame Allan and others for coming to their conclusions? They are being branded as talking from an emotional viewpoint and non-factual, while the proposers of the new plan have all the facts and months of behind-the-scenes deal-making. All the volunteers on the 4 boards pushing the new proposal are smart and qualified people, some maybe even friends, though that does not mean their decisions are the best ones. Yes, the Esto house future has been talked about for years, but since I'm not an original EH shareholder the open meeting a few weeks ago was the only one where I and others got well-presented information on the urgent plans to sell out, and the new Madison Ave proposal. The way things were framed it sounds like the Madison lot for sale is an outstanding opportunity that is only available right now, with a "do it or lose it" innuendo. In reality, the new proposal has many potential issues and it seems highly risky not only to get our full community's acceptance, but even to get approved and built to the $18 million estimate. I walked out of the meeting with a great fear (or bad dream), that should the proposal go ahead, only a pint-sized phase 1 might actually get completed before going bust.

And who are the ones who will decide? Yes, the shareholders have the final say, to the necessary quorum to pass (90% minimum?). Although the credit union board has the greatest number of voting shares, it is of course nowhere near a majority (<20%?). Maybe they are quietly hoping that other original EM shareholders, are either dead, their shares lost, or just don't show up to vote. I laud some shareholding organizations who are leaving this important decision up to a majority survey of their members to decide how their organization should vote. Unfortunately, I suspect many other shareholding organizations will not give their own members the same decision-making influence, leaving it fully up to their elected boards to decide. No surprise there…we know that us Estos have had some strong-minded opinionated leaders in our midst, and without them some big things would have never got done!

Should the new proposal pass, I suspect there will not be a lot of "hurraahs" to be heard, and more likely some quiet tears. I heard at the last meeting that when the old Esto house finance committee (including my father) pushed very hard, and maybe even aggressively to get many $50 and $100 shares bought by our parents and grandparents' generations, that today those shares would be worth maybe $4000 each. So, I wondered leaving the meeting, how many who attended would have left a cheque at the door for that amount for a share or 2 in the new proposal? Probably not too many, which gets into the probable success of future fundraising needed to manage the "gap". Some in our community, for whatever reason, don't have not too many nickels in their pockets to contribute, and those who have much deeper pockets often choose not to share for the "community", which leaves the muddy middle to pay for the "gap". I fear that the new EM proposal does not have the same strong vision and dream of decades ago which we would as individuals financially and emotionally support. Maybe we've lived off the coattails of our forefathers too long until our inherited building has bankrupted itself.

Nothing will be done until the shareholders value position is totally sorted out. This gives time for the EM not-at-Madison Avenue crowd to get together and create one proposal they can bring to the table, with the understanding that the current EM is financially unsustainable (or is it?).

I would like Meiusi to provide a list of his financial contributions to any of the registered charities in our community. All in the name of transparency.

The $3 million that was supposed to have vanished was another myth. Anyone who had done their due diligence would have located the funds in Ehatare Foundation. Charities' filings can be pulled on the CRA website.