Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
Toredad Leedukad, aga tänu EKNule kes algas selle aktsooniga! https://estoniancouncil.ca/en/...
https://ceecouncil.org/2018/09...
https://ceecouncil.org/2018/09...
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32 days before EKN issued its press release, Lithuania was already taking action, along with other lawmakers from Baltic states.
https://abcnews.go.com/Lifesty...
I also noticed that EKN continues to claim in its press release that it represents 'nearly 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage'. This 40,000 is a thoroughly debunked fake number and has no basis in reality, EKN should stop embarrassing itself.
https://abcnews.go.com/Lifesty...
I also noticed that EKN continues to claim in its press release that it represents 'nearly 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage'. This 40,000 is a thoroughly debunked fake number and has no basis in reality, EKN should stop embarrassing itself.
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20Kristlikud kommunistid, sümboliks on sirp ja rist.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
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0Why are you criticizing EKN for taking on this important initiative along with many others, which has resulted in WalMart agreeing to remove these offensive materials from stores and their website? Why the constant downplaying of the size of the Canadian population of Estonian HERITAGE? Whose interests do YOU serve by doing this?
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15You misunderstood my comment. I'm not criticizing EKN regarding the Walmart issue. I criticized the first comment that claimed that EKN started the whole campaign. It is not fair to claim/assign credit where credit is not due.
I'm criticizing EKN's repeated claims of 40,000 persons of Estonian heritage, this number has no basis in reality. They should stop doing it, it is so easy to show the number is wrong and this fake news derails the otherwise worthy message. And we are not talking about small insignificant difference. Based on Statistics Canada data, the most you can claim is 25K, even this is very generous.
Another separate issue is the EKN's claim that it represents all these 25K estos. If only 3.5% vote in elections, you can hardly claim you represent the whole 100%. Using 40K makes this 2%. But since there is no other organization like EKN, I'm not pressing this point. I just call for them to stay within the reality of our community.
As for your last question, I believe I serve our community's and EKN's interests. If EKN wants others to take it seriously, they can't keep posting press releases with fake data. The sooner they realize it the better off they will be.
I'm criticizing EKN's repeated claims of 40,000 persons of Estonian heritage, this number has no basis in reality. They should stop doing it, it is so easy to show the number is wrong and this fake news derails the otherwise worthy message. And we are not talking about small insignificant difference. Based on Statistics Canada data, the most you can claim is 25K, even this is very generous.
Another separate issue is the EKN's claim that it represents all these 25K estos. If only 3.5% vote in elections, you can hardly claim you represent the whole 100%. Using 40K makes this 2%. But since there is no other organization like EKN, I'm not pressing this point. I just call for them to stay within the reality of our community.
As for your last question, I believe I serve our community's and EKN's interests. If EKN wants others to take it seriously, they can't keep posting press releases with fake data. The sooner they realize it the better off they will be.
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15Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Lithuanian patriot (11:11)
Apparently EKN is taken very seriously: they helped get Walmart to remove these items. Instead of trolling you own community, why don’t you try contributing or participating outside of V frat drink-ups?
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13Wikipedia:
Estonian Canadians (Estonian: Kanada eestlased) are Canadian citizens or residents of Estonian descent or Estonian-born people who reside in Canada. Currently (2016) 24,530 people of Estonian descent live in Canada.[1](according to some sources up to 50,000 people[2]). “Some sources” referenced here is the Estonian Embassy in Ottawa.
Further, if “17,000 Estonians arrived in Canada in late 1940’s and 1950’s” it makes sense that there are minimally 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage. The census data can be misleading depending on how people self-identify, which can be different from heritage. Most younger Canadians of Estonian heritage also have parents and grandparents with heritage other than Estonian. They may be active in our community (and others), but on a census form wouldn’t necessarily state this.
Hoping that going forward you are able to support organizations such as EKN who consistently stand up for our community values and on the important work they do.
Estonian Canadians (Estonian: Kanada eestlased) are Canadian citizens or residents of Estonian descent or Estonian-born people who reside in Canada. Currently (2016) 24,530 people of Estonian descent live in Canada.[1](according to some sources up to 50,000 people[2]). “Some sources” referenced here is the Estonian Embassy in Ottawa.
Further, if “17,000 Estonians arrived in Canada in late 1940’s and 1950’s” it makes sense that there are minimally 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage. The census data can be misleading depending on how people self-identify, which can be different from heritage. Most younger Canadians of Estonian heritage also have parents and grandparents with heritage other than Estonian. They may be active in our community (and others), but on a census form wouldn’t necessarily state this.
Hoping that going forward you are able to support organizations such as EKN who consistently stand up for our community values and on the important work they do.
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11Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: To Lithuanian Patriot (11:10)
The Wikipedia provides a link to Statistics Canada and shows that according to 2016 survey there were approx 25K Canadians of Estonian origin. The link to Estonian Embassy that supposedly show "according to some sources 50K" is empty. Going back with the internet time machine one can discover that the entry in Embassy website indeed used to claim "...with about 20,000 people (according to some sources up to 50,000)". Embassy at that time did not reveal any sources and probably got this information from similar "reliable" source that EKN is using (and nobody can find). The Embassy realized their error about 5 years ago and deleted the entry.
The argument that "17,000 Estonians arrived in Canada in late 1940’s and 1950’s” it makes sense that there are minimally 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage" is completely bogus. You can as easily claim 60K, 80K or whatever number comes to mind. Following this logic we may all claim African heritage. And never mind the number of people who voted in EKN election, less than 3.5% of the 25K.
It was actually quite illuminating to look into the changes and contributors of the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....
I'm not going to point out the obvious there, but anybody can reach to their own conclusions.
I do generally support EKN's work, but stop claiming that you represent 40K. I can live with 25K with the mental asterisk that less than 3.5% bothered to vote.
The argument that "17,000 Estonians arrived in Canada in late 1940’s and 1950’s” it makes sense that there are minimally 40,000 Canadians of Estonian heritage" is completely bogus. You can as easily claim 60K, 80K or whatever number comes to mind. Following this logic we may all claim African heritage. And never mind the number of people who voted in EKN election, less than 3.5% of the 25K.
It was actually quite illuminating to look into the changes and contributors of the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....
I'm not going to point out the obvious there, but anybody can reach to their own conclusions.
I do generally support EKN's work, but stop claiming that you represent 40K. I can live with 25K with the mental asterisk that less than 3.5% bothered to vote.
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11The discussion here is about how EKN has helped to successfully lead a global coalition to have Soviet symbols removed from Walmart’s online store.
This deflecting and attacking on community size, in order to undermine our community is strange or perhaps just the ranting of someone who hates our community or has a chip on his shoulder.
Sadly, most of the posts on this blog do much of the same. There is never anything positive here.
Think about it - all content here is taken from other websites without regard for copyright. The only original material are articles that attacks community organiziations and activists. Why?
This deflecting and attacking on community size, in order to undermine our community is strange or perhaps just the ranting of someone who hates our community or has a chip on his shoulder.
Sadly, most of the posts on this blog do much of the same. There is never anything positive here.
Think about it - all content here is taken from other websites without regard for copyright. The only original material are articles that attacks community organiziations and activists. Why?
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13Sheesh! The person you are commenting about wrote suggesting EKN not run loose with the facts, that that would only hurt our cause. I say that is constructive. In a small community, no one wants to make a statement like that publicly to avoid hard feelings. That does not mean that it does not need to be said.
There must be an outlet for people to debate and to vent. Too many decisions are being made for the community at the moment that are not in line with the desires of a fairly large segment of the community. We would be worse off if there was no place to vent and air concerns. The worse scenario would be if a substantial number of members they left the community for good.
There must be an outlet for people to debate and to vent. Too many decisions are being made for the community at the moment that are not in line with the desires of a fairly large segment of the community. We would be worse off if there was no place to vent and air concerns. The worse scenario would be if a substantial number of members they left the community for good.
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9Dear trolls, Estonica, the Estonian encyclopedia site and Estonian World, put the total number of Estonians in Canada at a whopping 150,000 http://estonianworld.com/life/...
EKN is too conservative with their numbers.
PS great work on the Walmart issue. Too bad EWR refused to help with it.
EKN is too conservative with their numbers.
PS great work on the Walmart issue. Too bad EWR refused to help with it.
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14What a joke! The Estonia World article refers to 150,000 as total number of WWII refugees that Canada took in and Estonica has nothing on the subject at all.
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5Hi friends -
I'm a member of the EKN executive board at this time. I thought I would share that we're also working with the global offices of both Ebay and Amazon to arrive at the same goal. Both are amenable to these changes but it's a work in progress. Naturally we're hoping for a win.
A long, long time ago we also published the breakdown about where the 40,000 Estonian-Canadian estimate came from. You're welcome to read about that here and share it if you'd like:
https://estoniancouncil.ca/en/...
That should help dispel how we arrived at this number. The Census represents only one variable.
Warmest regards ~
I'm a member of the EKN executive board at this time. I thought I would share that we're also working with the global offices of both Ebay and Amazon to arrive at the same goal. Both are amenable to these changes but it's a work in progress. Naturally we're hoping for a win.
A long, long time ago we also published the breakdown about where the 40,000 Estonian-Canadian estimate came from. You're welcome to read about that here and share it if you'd like:
https://estoniancouncil.ca/en/...
That should help dispel how we arrived at this number. The Census represents only one variable.
Warmest regards ~
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4Thanks for reaching out to community members. My preference would be that EKN not use the 40,000 number. I'm interested more in the "bums in the seats" numbers.
If these people are not coming out to events, then that's a lost-leader. I find the 25,000 a bit of a stretch for our purposes, since if they don't know about EKN, then they will not be be contacting you to represent them about Estonian stuff (more likely, they don't feel tied enough to their roots or they are not informed enough to participate). My gut says that many of these individuals identify more with being Canadian and don't feel motivated to take i.e. Estonian courses or contribute to the Estonian community, which is obviously up to them. They will be happy to say that they have Estonian roots on occasion.
Do you see what I mean? By using more realistic numbers, people will take you more seriously, that any other numbers you give will be in the realm of believably. My 2 cents.
If these people are not coming out to events, then that's a lost-leader. I find the 25,000 a bit of a stretch for our purposes, since if they don't know about EKN, then they will not be be contacting you to represent them about Estonian stuff (more likely, they don't feel tied enough to their roots or they are not informed enough to participate). My gut says that many of these individuals identify more with being Canadian and don't feel motivated to take i.e. Estonian courses or contribute to the Estonian community, which is obviously up to them. They will be happy to say that they have Estonian roots on occasion.
Do you see what I mean? By using more realistic numbers, people will take you more seriously, that any other numbers you give will be in the realm of believably. My 2 cents.
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2Mart, thank you for providing the source of EKNs claim. However, anybody with basic math skills can easily see the error there. EKN should not continue to use this number. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
Below calculation assumes the most generous interpretation of Estonian heritage that EKN is using.
There were fewer than 3000 Estonian immigrants from 1900-1944. Additional 14K refugees came from 1946-55.
https://www.thecanadianencyclo...
Applying natural population growth data from Statistics Canada, one can easily calculate that there are theoretically up to 30K persons with some claim to being Estonian. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n...
The above assumes 0 assimilation since 1900. We also know (see above link to the encyclopedia) that only 8.5K in 2006 identified Estonian as their mother tongue and approx 850 in 2015 felt that EKN is relevant enough to vote on. You cannot continue to claim that you represent 40K persons of Estonian heritage in Canada. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
Below calculation assumes the most generous interpretation of Estonian heritage that EKN is using.
There were fewer than 3000 Estonian immigrants from 1900-1944. Additional 14K refugees came from 1946-55.
https://www.thecanadianencyclo...
Applying natural population growth data from Statistics Canada, one can easily calculate that there are theoretically up to 30K persons with some claim to being Estonian. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n...
The above assumes 0 assimilation since 1900. We also know (see above link to the encyclopedia) that only 8.5K in 2006 identified Estonian as their mother tongue and approx 850 in 2015 felt that EKN is relevant enough to vote on. You cannot continue to claim that you represent 40K persons of Estonian heritage in Canada. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
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0Thanks for the additional information. I'll take that with me and bring it back for another review. We'll adjust accordingly.
Warmest regards ~
Warmest regards ~
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1... Lithuanian patriot's comments re: stats.
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1Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Mart Leppik (09:55)
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