This plan has no reference to God the Father, His son Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit. It has lots of dollar signs but no sign of the Cross on which hung our salvation.

The Frienzies claim the congregation is made up of "free spirits", that "there is a prevalent feeling weekly services are not required", the Pastor can be fired, and that the "Lutheran liturgical model" is not needed. Sounds like they just want to dump God and convert the Sanctuary into a "yoga studio". Who are these people? Feels like they're enemies out to destroy whats left of the congregation - not friends at all.
Someone said once that if there's no strife in the church, then you know the devil has won! It's encouraging to know the devil has not beat us - but the Frenzies will keep trying! We will stay true to our religion and keep fighting back against the Frenzies evil onslaught.

Same thoughts re using the non profit Church status as a for profit community centre - totally unethical and not what Puhm nor Taul would have ever dreamt would happen.
Among the friends are some who claim they are non believers and have taken communion only for the vote. And then there’s the conspirators.

The plan proposed by the “Friends” is not viable. Most of their ideas (many of them quite strange) have not been costed at all. When the cost of everything that must be paid for to “save the church building” is estimated (even conservatively) it will be blatantly evident that they don’t know what they are doing. For example, they think they will save money by firing the pastor but hiring six managers to carry out their various endeavours. And removing the pews but not accounting for the cost of new seating. Their 16-page plan is full of ill thought-out proposals and wishful thinking.
They don’t know what they’re doing.
I encourage everyone to read their plan with a critical eye.

You’re correct. It’s exactly the same group - they have difficulty accepting an unpleasant reality and are arrogant enough to believe that they can change it. The most unfortunate consequence of this stubbornness is that they have given false hope to many, thus further fracturing our Toronto eesti kogukond . This is unforgivable.

Appreciate the executive hearing the Friends out and allowing them to present their side.

I think the Friends are genuine in their aims to save the church, and questioning leadership and holding decisionmakers accountable is healthy if done constructively.

Unfortunately, this shell of a plan is too ambitious, and the anticipated returns are unrealistic. Hiring six middle managers to ramp up business for a property requiring too much work to make it rentable is an extreme and risky way to appease 10 weekly church-goers.

The plan doesn't properly address the necessary capital expenditures and demographic decline.

Depending on when the roof bill (+1.5 mil) comes due -- perhaps a more modest compromise would have been better. If the Friends cover a year of the lease after the Salvation Army deal ends- give them a year to prove what they can do. (ie. boost activity, turnout, solicit fundraising pledges for capital requirements, seek partnerships). Have them put their money where their mouth is and prove it can be done.

Could you please direct me to where in the proposal that states the hiring of SIX (6) "managers" @ $85K/annum + benefits?

If you have some inside source, please advise.

Otherwise, this isn't fake news it is plain and simple lying that a 6th-grade student could recognize.

and to: Stuck in the middle

Nope don't see any $85K/annum and benefits associated with these positions.

By chance might these "positions" be voluntary managers?

or are these friends really that financially inept?

If the leading members of "the Friends" has not changed. Then there are 3 MBAs in the leadership.

I personally know 2 of these people for a few decades. Neither has ever given me cause to think that they are financially inept.

Additionally doesn't leadership state that the plan is a work in progress?

Perhaps all you naysayers should wait to raise your concerns until next Saturday's midday meeting?

Friends of St. Peter’s invite all members of the church to attend the next Täiskogu (congregational members) meeting at St Peter's Church, to be held on November 12th, 2022 at 1:00 p.m.

it was meant as a rhetorical question, and you took it out of context as the entire section is

"or are these friends really that financially inept?"

to save commentary until after the friends' presentation is polite. A better understanding of the terms for those who might be making assumptions would be cleared up and those

"Less business school jargon, and more clear and realistic financial models, please." could also be addressed.

Disagreeing with someone is acceptable.

Calling those you disagree with, names has never been polite.

Making things up, $85K/annum for "6 managers" is also impolite. Especially disparaging when it involves 3 MBAs who have led businesses.

But those are my opinions, sorry you couldn't save up the questions for after tomorrow's presentation and the Q&A.

Letting the foxes into the henhouse to experiment with their non-charitable areligious yoga sanctuary would be the worst idea of them all. The notion of selling this beautiful building is indeed sad, but monkeying around with this crackpot scheme is depressingly farcical.

If we are being honest, and I mean this, the current board and minister cannot be faulted for trying to do the right thing over the better part of a decade. If you have been paying attention, they have been trying earnestly to engage the community. If anyone is to blame it is all of us in the community as a whole, for not heeding the call to attend services and volunteer our time.

Let the congregation of devotees survive and find a more suitably sized place to pray. There are plenty of other churches around that can be borrowed for a two-hour Estonian language Christmas service for the masses.

Of course, as in government, it is much simpler to yell and criticize in opposition and much harder and more tedious to govern.

I would applaud that the “Friends” at least tried to put together a vision instead of bellyaching, but it is hard to ignore that this group also levied a lot of vitriolic accusations against a board that, whatever you may think of their conclusions, ought to have reputations beyond reproach.

Is not pride the original sin? Most glaring to me is that this hodgepodge crew unfortunately has little to no self-awareness and common sense from what I can tell, at least not collectively. Perhaps some members of the group may take a moment to reflect and go for a long walk to clear their heads before pushing us towards a huge mistake.

He who advances without seeking fame,
Who retreats without escaping blame,
He whose one aim is to protect his people and serve his lord,
The man is a jewel of the Realm.

The vote came in with the result in favour of closing the Columbarium. 68% voted in favour.
This is a clear majority. Since the meeting was in essence just about Peetri Kirik ceasing to offer "cemetery services" and not making any existential changes to the assets of the church, the vote in reality only had to be a 50/50 vote. The results of yesterday's vote clearly showed that an overwhelming majority supports the Executive. The Friends had a really low bar to jump over because the Executive decided to grant the Friends the opportunity to get just greater than 33.3% of the vote in order for their discussion paper to be accepted. The Friends failed to achieve even that because of the giant deficiencies in their plan. Now the Executive has been given the mandate to focus on the congregation's future and build a lasting legacy for the generations to come. Congratulations for a job well done!!!
And thanks to the Friends for helping achieve this milestone. Without them, the Congregation likely would not have appreciated how important it is to responsibly plan for the future.

I have many loved ones in the columbarium and I am not sad at all to move them. If anything I am relieved. They deserve a sacred, peaceful space.

Nüüd, et kolumbaariumi ja hoone müügi küsimused ja vaidlused on ühel pool, saab lõpuks tõsistele probleemidele takistamatult keskenduda!