Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
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Not a single true fact in this article. Just throw as much crap at the council and maybe, just maybe something might stick (you hope)! But over two thirds can see right through your twisted facts and the lame business wish list you "clearly" showed!
We're so sick and tired of this. Let's get this vote over with and move on. Come out and vote so our congregation doesn't get flushed down the Frienzies toilet.
We're so sick and tired of this. Let's get this vote over with and move on. Come out and vote so our congregation doesn't get flushed down the Frienzies toilet.
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40Your response is so typical: everything that does not line up with your dogma is wrong, crap, lame etc etc. Let’s sell quickly - so we can get the money.
You are the Straw Man - you have no argument. Is that the best you can do?
You are the Straw Man - you have no argument. Is that the best you can do?
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19Your response is so typical: everything that does not line up with your dogma is wrong, crap, lame etc etc. Let’s sell quickly - so we can get the money.
You are the Straw Man - you have no argument. Is that the best you can do?
You are the Straw Man - you have no argument. Is that the best you can do?
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19Amen straws. The ‘Friends’ here are the same psychotic mob that attached anyone in leadership at the EH. They needed a new hobby so here they are. They will continue to obstruct, harrass, and defame anyone that does not agree with their delusional interpretations of reality. While a lot of what they say and do is downright comical, the lengths to which they go is dangerous. This is exactly the element that we as a community should look to ostracize.
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34It's now indisputably obvious that the now unglued and desperate frienzies are only out to take over the Church Building. They have clearly demonstrated over and over again in every one of their smoke and mirrors articles and presentations that they don't care about the Congregation's future at all. And now they have pulled out all the stops in this frantic article. That's because they're not religious. They're shysters. Once these frauds take over and run the church into the ground they hope to be able to take the huge honey pot and spend it on their own projects like yoga studios, kumbaya free spirit gatherings, and who knows what. It's obvious! This is not about the Congregation. It's about the money and these friendzies smell it and want full control over it.
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31I am thankful for the calm and measured response of Friends to the abuses of the church council. In keeping with all the website information they’ve shared, I can see how much work they’ve put in. They know the true financial cost of closing the columbarium and reinternment, and why such a debt obligation is a very bad thing for the future of the congregation. They know the reasonable questions that the Registrar will ask, and they know the council should share the rationale it must prepare with the congregation, if they had its well-being at heart. Why would the council not share also the proposals from the developers they have invited, before the meeting?
These would be reasonable things to do but the council is in such haste to sell to the developer it has already chosen, from among the three they have invited like a real estate agent, that they are ignoring even the good news from the Salvation Army. They are happy to hold their services at St. Peter’s Church and they want to extend their lease for another full year!
And there is a growing number of more than 1500 signatures on the petition to “save St. Peter’s Church”. The general public (you and me) and the internment rights holders have 45 days from February 25 to raise their objections regarding the closure of the columbarium. A letter to the internment rights holders stating that the congregation has already voted to sell the church property is underhanded and dishonest. The Special Meeting is uncalled for and very ill-advised.
These would be reasonable things to do but the council is in such haste to sell to the developer it has already chosen, from among the three they have invited like a real estate agent, that they are ignoring even the good news from the Salvation Army. They are happy to hold their services at St. Peter’s Church and they want to extend their lease for another full year!
And there is a growing number of more than 1500 signatures on the petition to “save St. Peter’s Church”. The general public (you and me) and the internment rights holders have 45 days from February 25 to raise their objections regarding the closure of the columbarium. A letter to the internment rights holders stating that the congregation has already voted to sell the church property is underhanded and dishonest. The Special Meeting is uncalled for and very ill-advised.
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29Calm and measured?? Obviously not talking about the Friends we all know. Those lunatics are getting fitted for a straight jacket. Whoever posted this comment, yours will be waiting as well.
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31How about a firm rebuttal that doesn't pull any punches about the deceptive pressure tactics?!
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9Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Impressed and incensed (11:55)
Kommentaar on kustutatud EWR toimetuse poolt.
This comment has been deleted by EWR
This comment has been deleted by EWR
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2I am ashamed. Ashamed of the behaviour of the current Executive. They are not working in the best interest of the church nor congregation. You are looking towards a shiny new Esto building downtown and are abandoning what your parents and grandparents built. Shame on you! If you can't look after the building, then STEP ASIDE... but no, you need the money for the shiny new thing. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” And they divided His garments and cast lots. - Jesus may forgive you, but I will never be able. Shame on all of you in your greed.
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27The shame in this scenario is on you. Your laziness. Your apathy. Your willingness to skewer volunteers who do their best to make things work in an increasingly difficult situation. You are the ones to blame. You are the curse. But unlike you. I do forgive you.
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24I'm ashamed at my fellow members of the congregation that have resorted to false accusations that are designed to destroy our precious asset completely. You have ignored the facts and have presented "sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows" as your only alternative. You accuse the Executive, (that you yourselves chose!) from the peanut gallery and refuse to lift a finger to come and help out to turn things around (That's the hard part that you refuse to support!) Then you accuse the Executive for being lazy. I beg your pardon! Who' are the lazy ones? Then when you're are told that it's all the fault of the apathetic ones, you shout even louder. Now you're all screaming. But you cannot bend reality no matter how much you scream, accuse, and lambast! You have lost! If the vote goes for the sale, you've lost. If the vote goes against the sale, you've lost!!! This is the inevitable reality you face. This is the abyss you have fallen into!
May God rest your soul!
May God rest your soul!
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18The executive has not changed any of its members in 6 years, but according to ELCIC rules, 3 exec members have to resign each year to be replaced by new candidates. This has not happened in two years of ELCIC membership. The executive missed another ELCIC requirement by not conducting an AGM before March 31 of this year.
Unfortunately, the fascists on the executive can not tolerate anyone who wants to work to keep the congregation in its own church.
With the divisive minister leaving St. Peter's, this is actually an excellent time to talk with the St. Andrew's congregation.
Unfortunately, the fascists on the executive can not tolerate anyone who wants to work to keep the congregation in its own church.
With the divisive minister leaving St. Peter's, this is actually an excellent time to talk with the St. Andrew's congregation.
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17‘Those fascists…’. Really? You need to be spanked. You ungrateful, degenerate , do-nothing. Once again, those who sit on the sidelines have the biggest mouths. You must be one of the ‘Friends’, judging by your schizophrenic comment.
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21There are reasons people who were very active in the past stopped helping out. Now that the current pastor is leaving, and there are opportunities for new blood in the Executive, you may just see a lot of people returning to volunteer. If the church offers something for our young people, even they will return. The halls need to be dusted of the cobwebs.
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11Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Koguduse liige (15:44)
Some people really hate people, and leverage their economic illiteracy to make their nonsense appear reasonable. It is not and does not!
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5There seems to be a conspiracy theory out there that the sale of the church is somehow tied to Keskus (ie. the shiny new thing). The use of funds from the sale of the church building will be decided by the congregation….you know, the same people that voted in the executive that you are now publicly maligning. The same congregation who voted 2/3 in favour of looking for purchasers for the church building and 2/3 in favour of closing the columbarium.
None of the candidates put forth by the so called friends were voted in to the executive by to the congregation. You had your opportunity but apparently the congregation did not support your candidates.
Having lost the battle for Eesti Maja, this whole so called friends exercise seems to be largely an attempt to torpedo Keskus by trying to create an alternative community centre, not any genuine concern for the continued ability of our congregation to serve the Lord. Prove me wrong.
None of the candidates put forth by the so called friends were voted in to the executive by to the congregation. You had your opportunity but apparently the congregation did not support your candidates.
Having lost the battle for Eesti Maja, this whole so called friends exercise seems to be largely an attempt to torpedo Keskus by trying to create an alternative community centre, not any genuine concern for the continued ability of our congregation to serve the Lord. Prove me wrong.
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19If you want a Keskus... go for it! No problem. But, don't build it from the hard work that our forefathers did and money they gathered. They came to Canada without a language, without university degrees... and look what they built. Now you yunguns want that money to build the Keskus. Do it yourself...your corporation donors have university degrees and high incomes. Surely you can build this yourself without asking ma and paw for the money from the church. As for the votes... everyone knows that those are predetermined. Look at the strange faces the executive arranged to get their $5 votes.
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14Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Koguduse liige (15:44), Koguduse liige (17:13)
There is no Keskus, it’s virtual. Let the people who want it pay for it and build it. End of story. Do not give them funds from the sale of the church.
The church is a place of worship, it has been consecrated, it should be honoured, if not by our own people, then by other congregations. Sell it if you must, but to another church group- don’t tear it down!
The church is a place of worship, it has been consecrated, it should be honoured, if not by our own people, then by other congregations. Sell it if you must, but to another church group- don’t tear it down!
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2If the sale of Peetri Kirik has nothing to do with the proposed SEVERELY- OVER- BUDGET International Estonian Centre(that had gone from $18 million to $46-plus , BEFORE even a foundation or FULL BUILDING PERMIT was obtained) , then the PK Board should have no problem PUTTING IN WRITING, that NOT one dollar from the sale of Peetri Kirik will go towards funding the project.
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9Why does Keskus make you so nervous?
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19Did you not understand how the process works? The congregation will decide how the money will be spent when the funds are available. The majority decision will rule, as it has done in all of the past votes, and will continue to do so, as it does in any democratic institution, despite the vocal minority’s wishes that their position will prevail.
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12While I support and hope for the best with the KESKUS - it is increasingly looking like KESKUS risks becoming a financial black hole that could wipe out many of the community's key institutions (Similar to the risks posed by Eesti Maja, but now magnified by 500%).
KESKUS has already absorbed the $10 MILLION from the Eesti Maja proceeds, squeezed the community for another $30 MILLION, but still finds itself short a "measly" $5 MILLION !!!
Now Peetri Kirik seems to be circling the toilet bowl. You know ESK will bleed out propping up the KESKUS (now even faster than with the Eesti Maja). We should probably sell Joekaaru next to feed The Borg.
The Credit Union was clever enough to spot the dangers, so it diversified to avoid putting all its eggs into that basket.
In terms of "Return on Investment" for the community. I think $500,000 towards the Peetri Kirik would add more value to the community than the next $5 MILLION towards KESKUS.
But KESKUS is now in "too big to fail" territory.... which probably explains the trolls (gleefully) agitating church supporters at a painful time.
Sad.
KESKUS has already absorbed the $10 MILLION from the Eesti Maja proceeds, squeezed the community for another $30 MILLION, but still finds itself short a "measly" $5 MILLION !!!
Now Peetri Kirik seems to be circling the toilet bowl. You know ESK will bleed out propping up the KESKUS (now even faster than with the Eesti Maja). We should probably sell Joekaaru next to feed The Borg.
The Credit Union was clever enough to spot the dangers, so it diversified to avoid putting all its eggs into that basket.
In terms of "Return on Investment" for the community. I think $500,000 towards the Peetri Kirik would add more value to the community than the next $5 MILLION towards KESKUS.
But KESKUS is now in "too big to fail" territory.... which probably explains the trolls (gleefully) agitating church supporters at a painful time.
Sad.
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10What is the congregation? The people? Those who pay their fees, show up, voice concerns, ask questions- or ones that pay their 5$ fee to show up for a vote?
There is only one option, the one that the executive has decided- in advance- that it wants.
Why should the funds be any different? It has all been decided in advance, you just keep paying and elect who you are told to elect. That’s eestlus. So Soviet. So sad.
There is only one option, the one that the executive has decided- in advance- that it wants.
Why should the funds be any different? It has all been decided in advance, you just keep paying and elect who you are told to elect. That’s eestlus. So Soviet. So sad.
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15Grow up! You have no idea what Soviet is.
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16The current St. Peter's EELK minister is a Soviet. The 1949 Stalinist era EELK has not changed its hierarchical structure, nor its personnel, nor did they give control of the Soviet controlled churches back to their parishioners, since Estonia gained re-independence in 1991. Just look at their undemocratic tactics.
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15Oh c'mon children... Keskus has nothing to do with the church!
The congregation is in total control over any assets that the church has or will have.
The juhatus cannot do anything with the assets of the church without 2/3's in favour. The juhatus can propose a purchase agreement it sees as the best of many but the congregation alone decides - again only with 2/3's in favour.
All these ignorant allegations only show how your emotions are controlling you and blinding you.
I repeat - only the congregation decides with a super majority. No super majority - no disposal of assets - only bankruptcy... You decide.
The congregation is in total control over any assets that the church has or will have.
The juhatus cannot do anything with the assets of the church without 2/3's in favour. The juhatus can propose a purchase agreement it sees as the best of many but the congregation alone decides - again only with 2/3's in favour.
All these ignorant allegations only show how your emotions are controlling you and blinding you.
I repeat - only the congregation decides with a super majority. No super majority - no disposal of assets - only bankruptcy... You decide.
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18Because it’s a big black hole! A money pit!
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4Pauluse esimene kiri Timoteosele 2:Juhendeid palvetamiseks
1 Ma kutsun siis üles anuma, palvetama, tegema
eestpalveid ja tänupalveid kõigi inimeste eest,
2 kuningate ja kõigi ülemuste eest, et me võiksime elada vaikset
ja rahulikku elu kõiges jumalakartuses ja väärikuses.
3 See on hea ja meeldiv Jumala, meie Päästja silmis,
4 kes tahab, et kõik inimesed pääseksid ja tuleksid tõe tundmisele.
5 Sest üks on Jumal,
üks on ka vahemees Jumala ja inimeste vahel:
inimene Kristus Jeesus,
6 kes on iseenese loovutanud lunastushinnaks kõikide eest,
tunnistusena selleks määratud ajal.
7 Selle sõnumi kuulutajaks ja apostliks olen ma pandud - ma räägin tõtt,
ma ei valeta -, paganate õpetajaks usus ja tões.
8 Ma tahan siis, et mehed igal pool palvetaksid, tõstes üles pühad
käed ilma viha ja kahtlemiseta.
1 Ma kutsun siis üles anuma, palvetama, tegema
eestpalveid ja tänupalveid kõigi inimeste eest,
2 kuningate ja kõigi ülemuste eest, et me võiksime elada vaikset
ja rahulikku elu kõiges jumalakartuses ja väärikuses.
3 See on hea ja meeldiv Jumala, meie Päästja silmis,
4 kes tahab, et kõik inimesed pääseksid ja tuleksid tõe tundmisele.
5 Sest üks on Jumal,
üks on ka vahemees Jumala ja inimeste vahel:
inimene Kristus Jeesus,
6 kes on iseenese loovutanud lunastushinnaks kõikide eest,
tunnistusena selleks määratud ajal.
7 Selle sõnumi kuulutajaks ja apostliks olen ma pandud - ma räägin tõtt,
ma ei valeta -, paganate õpetajaks usus ja tões.
8 Ma tahan siis, et mehed igal pool palvetaksid, tõstes üles pühad
käed ilma viha ja kahtlemiseta.
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1Keskus is the white elephant in the room that no one mentions directly. But the juhatus plans to run new programmes once the church is sold, where …? There is no plan of where the kogudus would go.
Maybe virtually? At Mis Keskus? The virtual one?
Maybe virtually? At Mis Keskus? The virtual one?
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7Stop acting like a f-----g child.
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22Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Pavarotti (15:55)
Stay in the keskus, your play space!
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4Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Dear Straws (05:18)
All will be welcome at KESKUS (even the Friends). This is the next chapter of Estonians abroad. Dont get so hung up on nostalgia.
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15Nii kahju lugeda seda juttu meie ilusa ja hubase kiriku kohta. On ikka pühakoda ja mitte mingi labane varandus mille rahalist väärtust himustakse.
Nii kahju ka, et küüditamise aastapäeval antakse kord lahkuda. Kes seda nii plaanis? Õudne värk. Häbiplekk. Saadab külmavärinad läbi keha. Ja rahvas on nii leige, et läheb kõigega kaasa, kui käsk antakse. Tulge ometi oma häält andma selle vastu!
Kaob kirik, kaob märkmik pagulaste rännust. Siin me siis oleme. Nii kahju.
Nii kahju ka, et küüditamise aastapäeval antakse kord lahkuda. Kes seda nii plaanis? Õudne värk. Häbiplekk. Saadab külmavärinad läbi keha. Ja rahvas on nii leige, et läheb kõigega kaasa, kui käsk antakse. Tulge ometi oma häält andma selle vastu!
Kaob kirik, kaob märkmik pagulaste rännust. Siin me siis oleme. Nii kahju.
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4Ka minul on kahju, hea Maret. Vähem siiski pühakojast kui kogudusest, mis on jäänud nii väetiks, et ei suuda seda pühakoda ülal pidada.
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14Mul on väga kahju, et meil ei olnud kiriku õpetajat, kes oma kogudust ja kirikut ei väärtustanud.
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6Mul on väga kahju, et meil ei olnud kiriku õpetajat, kes oma kogudust ja kirikut VÄÄRTUSTAS!!!
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7Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Hea kristlane (11:35)
Kirik kaob kuna keegi ei anneta enam. Keegi ei käi enam. Keegi ei usu enam. Kui tulete vastu hääletama siis öelge palun selgelt mis on plaan siit edasi? Kust kirik saab annetusi? Kust kirik saab liikmeid kes tahavad tulla? Kust kirik saaba kulude katmiseks piisavat raha, et rohkem kui paar aastat hoida ennast elus?
Kui neid küsimusi saaks kuidagi vastata, noh siis küll on lootust, et ehitust alles hoida. Kui aga ei, siis kaob kõik!
Kui neid küsimusi saaks kuidagi vastata, noh siis küll on lootust, et ehitust alles hoida. Kui aga ei, siis kaob kõik!
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7Isn't it funny that Keskus has the same number of letters as Sauron. Who is Sauron.....Sauron is the title character and the primary antagonist, through the forging of the One Ring, of J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, where he rules the land of Mordor and has the ambition of ruling the whole of Middle-earth.
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11‘Friends’..same number of letters as ‘moronic’. Fitting given all their ideas, and thei general behaviour at EH and the church can be aptly described by that one adjective.
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14Madison has the same number of letters as 'moronic'. And better yet, they both start with 'M'. Coincidence?
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12Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Isn't it funny (11:01)
Just give it up. You’re not going to win. Face it. KESKUS is getting built. People will be happy. Great events will take place there. The future is bright. If you want to destroy things, just take you let ‘friends’ and go some place else.
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18Do any of you honestly believe that posting in this far right-wing cesspool of a newsletter will change anything?? My first time reading this publication and my god is this is a dumping ground of utter, useless crap.
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16One. The church is not viable financially. Two. The minister was properly hired and the juhatus chosen by the congregation. Three. No other financially sound alternatives have been offered. Four. The memories stay with us as will the ashes of those who came before.
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18Neither is the Keskus financially viable or sustainable. Yet they never stop asking for donations. So there’s hope for the church!
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12$20,000,000 legacy of our forebears down the toilet... how sad!
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16We may get more down the road, stop crying!
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9Wasn’t this supposed to be confidential?
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1Last Saturday finally brought sanity into the St. Peter's Sanctuary! The Friends saved the day and now St. Peter's is the true Phoenix ready to rise again from the ashes buried in the Columbarium. We are all so excited. After, having been totally isolated, locked down all these years, now we can finally start to overflow the collection plate with the cash we have hoarded, all these years just for this moment and this will put all things right just as our forebears really knew their offspring would do.
Our parents' legacy will now live on for many generations. We are fortunate to have our Friends watching our backs for otherwise we would have ended up squandering the twenty odd million instead of letting it sink into the coffers of the city where it really belongs.
I can't believe it! Didn't the Executive know that the 20 top developers in the GTA would not have a clue clue what the real market value is? Didn't they look at the comparables? After all, the true price of anything is what anyone is willing to pay. Didn't the developers check? Obviously these 20 top developers in the GTA didn't bother to investigate because they have offered less than what the GTA's top 20 developers are actually willing to pay. But the Friends will fix that with their awesome well though out business wish list that was endorsed by just over a third of the congregation. A minority, but still true democracy at work.
Yes, the future is bright and we can confidently downward dog to where no congregation has sniffed before.
Our parents' legacy will now live on for many generations. We are fortunate to have our Friends watching our backs for otherwise we would have ended up squandering the twenty odd million instead of letting it sink into the coffers of the city where it really belongs.
I can't believe it! Didn't the Executive know that the 20 top developers in the GTA would not have a clue clue what the real market value is? Didn't they look at the comparables? After all, the true price of anything is what anyone is willing to pay. Didn't the developers check? Obviously these 20 top developers in the GTA didn't bother to investigate because they have offered less than what the GTA's top 20 developers are actually willing to pay. But the Friends will fix that with their awesome well though out business wish list that was endorsed by just over a third of the congregation. A minority, but still true democracy at work.
Yes, the future is bright and we can confidently downward dog to where no congregation has sniffed before.
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9LOL... do you really think there is anyone going to offer more? The frienz have shown us how we will soon be desperate sellers and we will get really low ball offers if anything. That's an additional horse that has left the barn.
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