Toronto Preservation Board recommends to include St. Peter's Estonian church in Heritage Register VIDEO
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
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lugeja03 May 2023 07:35
I just finished watching, it was interesting. At one point, Reet Marten Sehr said that the copper roof is leaking and it's copper "can not be patched". I'm by no means an expert on the subject but my understanding is the copper roofs can absolutely be patched. Perhaps someone can help me understand why this specific roof can't be patched. Or perhaps Reet is mistaken?

I'm also very surprised if it's true that as Reet says, the roof is leaking in over 50 places as Copper roofs are known for their durability.
lugeja part 203 May 2023 07:37
Here's an excerpt from this link from Coast Mountain Roof - a Certified Advanced Installer in Vancouver:

https://coastmountainroof.com/...

• Durable: It is virtually impossible to overstate the durability of a copper roof. There are numerous examples of buildings all over the world that have copper roofs that have lasted for hundreds of years, with no signs of damage or weakening of any kind. This is because a copper roof technically has no finish that can be scratched or damaged, and in the unlikely event of any damage occurring, copper is light and malleable enough to be easily repaired by an expert with the proper tools and skills. Recent studies have shown that copper roofs installed on 18th buildings in Europe can potentially last for another 1000 years!* How’s that for longevity?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (07:35)
Õ03 May 2023 08:41
I'm surprised that you are surprised, lugeja. It is a time honoured tradition to manufacture a crisis and then tear down everything and start anew. We witnessed the same behaviour during EM debacle - we have no money, we can never fix it, more than 50 years old, it will blow up tomorrow, etc, etc. But to allow somebody else to try - no, no, no. What was the original due diligence estimate for KESKUS? 18 million? And how much is it now? $41 million +++? Fool me once ...
Reet Marten Sehr03 May 2023 08:58
I’d love to be able to deny the fact that St. Peter’s roof has been leaking for years. Anyone who attended the last meeting on March 25th would have seen the leaks (3 places on that day) and the buckets.
Congregation Misinformed09 May 2023 10:05
Did the church executive investigate adaptive re-use for the church? ERA preservation architects were contacted about concrete towers (e.g. Tartu College) but not churches within the community:

“Toronto has a large stock of churches that function, in part, like informal community centres. There’s an opportunity in relation to doing something proactive with a whole slew of buildings fated to close. We could emulate programs like Artscape, while at the same time striving to maintain many of the present functions of churches. It’s an E.R.A. project but Tower Renewal is another case.”*

By their own account the short answer is No. And, in the announcement of the Special Meeting in 2020**, AS IF the acclaimed architectural gem “is a building after all, and an ageing one at that”:

“Statistics do not support the illusion that increased donations are the answer. The committee consulted with various experts in real estate, construction, etc. as well as to Bishop of the ELCIC. There are no christian congregations interested in purchasing or renting a church. Our lot is too small to build around the existing church structure. The only viable solution is to sell the church and property…". This was not true. And the committee did not consult with E.R.A. architects, well known within the community, or any other preservation architects.

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2011...

** https://eestielu.com/to-be-or-...
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: for the future (21:38)
lugeja to Reet03 May 2023 10:35
Since you're commenting, perhaps you help me out here - I wasn't questioning the fact that the roof was leaking, just expressing my surprise at the number of leaks you claimed (over 50). I was however puzzled by your claim that the roof can't be patched, can you help my understand why this is the case?

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm also curious as to why on March 25th, the roof was leaking in only 3 places - what happened to the other 47+ leaks? You say the roof can't be patched, how is it that these other "leaks" weren't leaking on that particular day?
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (07:35), lugeja part 2 (07:37)
Reet Marten Sehr03 May 2023 11:12
To Lugeja: To the best of my knowledge, the roof would need to be opened up, in order to get a complete analysis of the extent of deterioration below the surface. As it has a steep slope, the water has come in from various spots over the years, including along the edges and from above, as seen on March 25th. The roof is only one of many serious issues affecting the church. There is and has been no money (declining membership, attendance and donations over many decades)to address these problems. This is the trend in many congregations including Vana Andres, which sold its building and has been renting at Agricola for years.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Reet Marten Sehr (08:58)
lugeja Reedale03 May 2023 13:02
I was hoping for straightforward answers, what you've said could instead be (in my opinion) better described as obfuscation.

You told the Toronto Preservation Board that the roof "can't be patched", now you've shifted the goalposts to "To the best of my knowledge ... in order to get a complete analysis ...". This seems to indicate that your statement to the board was agenda driven fear mongering, and not factual.

I couldn't imagine what the explanation could possibly be for a roof with 50 leaks leaking in only 3 places on a given day. That said, I hope you don't think you're fooling anyone by changing the subject to Vana Andres etc.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (07:35), lugeja part 2 (07:37), lugeja to Reet (10:35)
...03 May 2023 13:23
what sort of renovations are being suggested?

anything like what Vana Andres went through?

https://building.gracetoronto....

https://www.larkinarchitect.co...
Pealt vaataja03 May 2023 14:06
I too just watched the video of the proceedings. Interesting that there are exactly 50 leaks. Not 49, nor 51, but 50. Reet said at the meeting that it would cost $1 million to fix the roof, but here she says that the roof would need to be opened up to get a complete analysis. Was that not done by whomever gave the $1m quote? Seems a little sloppy to me. I'm with Lugeja and his/her comments. Oh, and by the way, doesn't Heritage status give some kind of tax benefits and aren't there grant programs?
Northern Esto03 May 2023 14:20
Getting the church listed as a heritage building is great news. Now we can start taking advantage of some of the government financial aid grants from Heritage Canada.
I am not a professional roofer but I have installed some shingle and steel roofs. I was just reading about how to repair copper roofs. We could get an assessment done and then apply for a grant to fix the roof. This was done when the Estonian House roof was leaking.
Pay attention03 May 2023 14:39
Church is not listed as a heritage building yet. Its only on the registry. Meanwhile the drips drop.
Pealt vaataja03 May 2023 15:29
The trouble is that the current juhatus who announced their resignation at the last meeting... is sitting tight. They don't have the mindset to make the necessary changes to ways of doing business, involving the community, getting more use of the church to cover expenses. A small Estonian only congregation cannot sustain the building. Why can we not get a straight answer from the Juhatus as to why don't they want to work with the Friends group to save the building? The Friends at least have ideas that could be tried. My fear is that the funds from the proposed sale are already earmarked for the Keskus and they need the bail out. The congregation will vote for where the money goes. Oh yeah. With a majority vote all wanting to support the Keskus, we know how the vote will go.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: Pealt vaataja (14:06)
Life teacher03 May 2023 17:12
Majority rules. You are absolutely right most folks want keskus. And why not! This is all part of the natural evolution of our community. And much like in nature, the weaker elements will fade away, and the rest of us will be stronger for it. Elagu Toronto eestlus!
Huh?03 May 2023 18:14
Why does it always come back to keskus? Remember, it’s not about the keskus, it’s about the church.
La Dame Blanche03 May 2023 18:42
Life teacher? Well how grand for you. Love Rules. Truth will out, and Bon Chance with your. . . what did you call it “natural evolution” The scuttlebutt on the cost of your KusePalace is now @65M. (munching on popcorn) All us “weaker elements” will have a ringside seat when Darwin’s Law cleans house. munchmunch >burp<
Reformed hippie03 May 2023 19:01
What ‘life teacher’ says makes a lot of sense. I mean look at it..everything our community has done has led us here. Every building, every organization that has existed has done so for the sole purpose of getting us to the KESKUS. It is the culmination of all our efforts. It is our reward. Baffles me to the core how folks can be so dead set against this. Just utterly confusing. But are we are still one community and as such there are times when we have to pull others along and show them the way. And you know what, I for one am happy to do it. Love you all!!
?03 May 2023 20:41
From where does the $65 million figure come? It was $46 million at the February meeting, what's happening?
for the future03 May 2023 21:38
who says put all your eggs in one basket?
Dr. Leary04 May 2023 15:23
Methinks "Reformed Hippie" had a little too much of the "KoolAid" back in the day.

All of human history shall culminate in the great and almighty KESKUS on Madison!

I hope it works out, but c'mon...
to Timothy05 May 2023 12:14
Looks like some of your hippy dippy trippimg buddies have never landed.

https://www.bing.com/videos/se...
lugeja03 May 2023 19:07
The friends who want so save the church are being ignored by the people running the church. RMS (who claims to represent a "large majority" of the congregation), is aggressively pushing for it to be sold and even called someone a liar at this board meeting. I can't help but wonder if a "large majority" of the congregation truly approves of such an aggressive approach. I'd like to think that this is not the case, but who knows?

Some of RMS's supposed facts however don't hold up to scrutiny so one is left wondering - who it is that really deserves to be called a liar here? Then we have some of the keskus supporters gleefully cheering saying they're better off without these "weaker elements", an attitude that sadly, I'm not witnessing for the first time from the keskus supporters. No wonder people are becoming increasingly cynical and many are giving up on the Esto community altogether.

I shudder to think what some of the pillars of our community in bygone days like Oskar Puhm, Andres Tork and many others would say, were they here to witness their legacy being sold off.

Sad stuff, shaking my head.
Samalt IP numbrilt on siin varem kommenteerinud: lugeja (07:35), lugeja part 2 (07:37), lugeja to Reet (10:35), lugeja Reedale (13:02)
Elmars Berzins07 May 2023 06:10
Friends -- St. Peter's Estonian Church will last for many years to come.

As a point of interest, the CRA website indicates the Church having $812,000 in cash resources as at December 2021, which is the approximate amount it has held over the past five years.

It therefore appears there are resources for major repairs. Elagu St. Peters!
CSNageDearialax08 May 2023 20:29
Welcome, https://top-menu.info/ Strategy games in Craps
EKN's RM Sehr09 May 2023 19:13
Just listened to EKN's Reet Marten Sehr's speech to the Preservation Board. Shocked that she directly accused another speaker of lying. Is this what we expect from someone who considers herself a community leader and presents herself as such in Estonia? Why also did she find it necessary to tell the Board that her son works as a city planner at Toronto City Hall....influence peddling perhaps?
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