Peter, our seperatist, who would like to like to establish Estonian enclaves within Canada is cause for discomfort. His vision, in place, would have us look like the Mennonite community -- isolated for no good reason and contoured by ideals of a golden age that probably didn't exist. Curiously, Peter's vision includes no ties to contemporary Estonia.

I have been called many names here but never a separatist. I am not advocating that we start our own country and have always promoted the idea that we are also a part of Canadian society and equal to the other ethnic groups who have colonized this country. Some of you are uncomfortable with my idea of setting up an Estonian community here but have no problem with communities where other European languages are spoken such as French and English or even German and Ukranian. I would like to point out that there are Estonian speaking communities in other countries. There are several in Russia, Turkey and Kazakstan. There is 1 in Australia (Eesti Küla). There have been attempts to set up Estonian colonies in Spain And Costa Rica. The first wave of pre-war Estonian immigrants set up communities in Alberta and British Columbia. Admiral Pitka started a colonization society to create a nation within a nation here in Canada and I have always been and will continue to be a proponent of his ideas.
The Latvian community on the US has recently created their own colony, I think it is in Arizona or California and they have a great website with lots of info on this experiment. There are not many more Latvians than Estonians here in North America.
One of the biggest problems with the post-war Estonian exile community as opposed to the pre-war Estos was that they saw there stay here as temporary. Some did not even bother to learn English since they hoped to return to Estonia as soon as the situation returned to normal and the Soviets pulled out. They were not interested in the survival and advancement of our language and culture in Canada and saw themselves as Estonians rather than Canadians. The current decline of our community is a reflection of that mentality.
To IRW, I have had many debates with you in the past and look forward to many more but lets keep it civil. I am only advocating ideas here that will keep our culture alive and do not mind if they are controversial. I am not intentionally insulting you or your ideas in this forum. You say that it is the right of parents to decide whether or not to teach their children Estonian but I hope you understand that by not teaching their children the language they are preventing them from becoming a part of our community and are denying them the right to make that choice. I have met so many young people who regret not understanding Estonian and truly feel sorry for them. Estonian is a difficult language to learn and many of them are now enrolled in courses but few of them will ever become fluent speakers.
To Peeter Bush, I never thought I would do this but I have to commend you for starting this discussion in the Eesti Elu forum with your columns. You now hold the record for the number of comments posted for any column and I hope that you will continue to write your opinions And get more lively debates going in this website.

I think the terms you use probably scare people a bit. Setting up a colony sounds like you want to set up a cult or a Fifth Column...cults usually end with everyone killing themselves with their "us against the world" mentality. And I would tone down talking about orangemen, etc., it makes you sound like a nut. All that stuff is in the past, move on. If you talk to people in the "language" that they are used to, you are more likely to get through to people. I would maybe call your dream place a commune or a 'heritage village' or find something more catchy to capture people's imagination. So what's the Latvian 'colony' website? Maybe we can get a better idea of what you are talking about, if we check it out. You might get a group of people together to live in a commune type set-up...you could tie in an organic-lifestyle, back-to-nature set-up, which is popular these days, but you are going to be hard pressed to find a group of people who will live in a rigid, only Estonian-speaking environment.

I perceive the EKN as an established boys club with its own narrow agenda. Why should I volunteer if my opinions and ideas won’t be heard? And has EKN ever had a female voice in its ranks? Yes, I see a handful of women in their member photos, but we never hear from them as EKN members.

We tend to see as many women volunteer in other Estonian orgs as men, if not more. This is not the case with the EKN. Something for “the boys” to ponder.

There are, to my knowledge, close to 20 Estonian families (incl. Couples) living, full time, in Jõekääru.

There's the start of our own village!

Tere,

Olen Toomas Allikas (24) Tallinnast ja otsin kedagi, kes aitaks mind!!
Alustasin projekti http://allikas.pri.ee/e-organi... ja olen selle autor
ning tegelenud projekti elluviimisega alates 2003 algusest.
Äriprojekti kirjutamine hakkab jõudma lõppfaasi aga võimalus
jõuda õigete investoriteni on mul igati äralõigatud.
Olen suhtlenud tuntud Eesti poliitikute ja ärimeestega
aga tulemuseks on se, et projekti on tahetud lihtsalt käest ära võtta.
Nüüdseks on projekt kinnitatud ja õigused kaitstud.
Projekt annab tööd kokku umbes 140-le inimesele.
Finantsprojekt on ennast igati õigustav ja edukas.
Projekti eelarve on ca. 5,200,000 Eur.
Kas keegi oskab nõu anda, et kuhu peaksin pöörduma?

Ette tänades,
Toomas Allikas
toomas.allikas@mail.ee

I am an Estonian-Canadian in my teens, living in Toronto. I am proud to have this heritage and speak the language well enough. But this isn't the case everywhere. I can see friendships built on the fact that the friends are of Estonian heritage, but the language is gone. Most people my age will speak English between each other and only use Estonian funny-sounding words, words with no translation or expletives. Without pressure put on by parents, grandparents and other organizations, the language will disappear. I also see many adults speaking English between each other and only switching to Estonian to talk to us kids. The Estonian language is great and without effort, it will start dying in Canada after the older generations start dying. The Canadian culture is taking over. However, I can say that organizations such as rahvatants and skaudid are yet to start disappearing. Young people still have interest. Elagu Eesti!

I am not talking about a cult or commune, just having enough Estonians in one area to keep our culture and language alive.
I guess I am somewhat bitter about the Orangemen and dwell on things that happened decades ago but I am just trying to point out one of the main reasons why other European languages including our own were supressed here in Canada. In fairness I could also criticize Brazil's Vargas regime that banned that country's Eesti Selts because they felt that all Brazilians who did not speak Portugese at home were traitors or the Soviet government which destroyed our most successful colony outside of Estonia, that of Crimea. I reccomend O. Laaman's book Mälestused Krimmist to anyone who is sceptical of the idea of Estonian settlements and guarantee that you will be amazed by just how successful they were.
I will try to find the Latvian website and post the address here. There is also a website called Haldjas that has lots of info on Estonian communities in Russia.

Here is the link for Haldjas. Still looking for the Latvian one
http://haldjas.folklore.ee/rl/... eema/asundus.htm

Looks like PB is about as popular with some people as the little boy who cried "the emporor has no clothes!"
Its somewhat surprising that some of the ultra nationalists would bother to read the English language pages. This could be considered to be anti-Estonian in some circles!
Anyway, it seems that:
If you want to live in Estonian then move to Estonia.
If you want to die in Estonian then move to Estonia.
If you want your children to learn Estonian then spend the money and send them to school in Estonia for at least a year.With any luck they will come back speaking better Russian than English.

Nagu na"ha, minu eesti keel on vo~rdlemisi roostes. Ra"a"gin eesti keelt ainult kaks korda aastas sellest aejast kui ema suri. La"hen veebruaris aktusel siin ja kesk suvel Seedriorule, aga siis ka on kuulda rohkem Inglise keelt.

Olen elus kolm korda eestit ku"lastanud. Kui elu ja tervis siis la"hen 2005 aastal pere kokkutulekule. Arvan et isamaal kestab kindlasti eestlus omamoodi edasi.

Ei arva et mina kirjutasin et eestlus Kanadas lo~ppeb-ainult va"heneb ja muudab. Ku"llalt keel lo~peb, aga eestlus kestab edasi, eriti Torontos, aga va"iksemal viisil tu"kk aeg.

Thank you all for the comments. I really had not expected such a response. Many of you did quite a bit of soul searching, some responded quickly in anger, but in the end we all share a common bond-namely interest and indeed pride in our Estonian heritage.

Paremate soovidega
Best Wishes

Peeter Bush

It's clear from your comments that you're definitely no fairweather Estonian. It also sounds like you give all you've got willingly, not just to please your wife (although I'm sure she is pleased, I mean how could she not be). It sure sounds like you're quite a guy no matter what kind of beer you drink. Say ... you're not Kalevipoeg by any chance are you?

Ma arvan, et me vôlgneme tänu hr. Peeter Bushile tema artikli eest, kuna see kutsus esile nii elava, mônikord asjatult terava, môttevahetuse kanada eesti ühiskonna tuleviku üle. Säärane môttevahetus aitab meil langetada paremaid otsuseid meie ühiskonna tuleviku suhtes. Lisan vaid eesti vanasôna:"Kus viga näed laita, seal tule ja aita"

Raske oli mitte selle vestlusesse hüpata. Selleks lisan oma arvamuse. Nende inimestele kes arvavad et kultuur elab edasi ilma keeleta, nad on väga valesti aru saanud. Nagu Jõekäärul söögisaali seinal on kirjas "Kui kaob keel kaob rahvas". Ärge seda unustage. Kui minu vanemad ei oleks mulle eesti keele ära õpetanud ei elaks ja töötaks ma Eestis. Eriti mitte EV Välisministeeriumis. Minu vanemad andsid mulle selle võimaluse ise otsustada kas ma tahan selle kultuurist osa võtta sest nad tegid mulle keele selgeks. Nii et, ma vabandan aga need vanemad kes ei õpeta oma lastele eesti keelt on ikka ise süüdi. Laps ei sa ise otsustada mida ta teha tahab ja kui sa ei ole noorelt keelt õppinud siis on raske tagant järgi keelt õppida. Ma tahan edu soovida kõik Kanada-Eesti organisatsioonidele ja loodan et Eestlus säilib seal edasi. Elagu Eesti!