PACE condemns crimes of communist regimes
Kommentaarid on kirjutatud EWR lugejate poolt. Nende sisu ei pruugi ühtida EWR toimetuse seisukohtadega.
VanemadUuemad
.03 Feb 2006 10:59
It will be a difficult field to plough before many democratic countries join the chorus of disapproving Communism, and raise their hands to applaude this controversial move. Countries do not easily forget with whom they were allied in wartime, and a kickback for Russia now that it is in the G 8 club could mean a setback somewhere down the road. The USA wouldn't want to look like a shrinking violet, since she too was at one time an ally to Russia. Interesting to see if this decision goes beyond the discussion panel that initiated it in Brussels.
to.05 Feb 2006 05:02
I doubt if it would have made much difference to America then to know what it knows now about the USSR. It was politically correct to take a stand against the Nazi regime by siding with the Soviets, and nothing will unravel that vital link in the chain of historical events that proceeded from that decision. Millions of Soviet lives lost in the chaos of WW 11 is just sheer bad luck, as far as North America is concerned, and anything that would cause the US to reconsider electing to oppose the Soviets in hindsight will, quite simply, return to haunt them as the Vietnam war has only too successfuly managed to do to date. Putin will make every personal effort to be sure of that!
nuhk03 Feb 2006 12:53
so does this mean only culpable nazi perpetrators should bear guilt ..."certain individuals should be held accountable, not the party" ... thus german collective guillt for the nazi crimes is excessive and a nationalist socialist party could continue to operate ?
puzzled yet again03 Feb 2006 13:14
The bad news is that the resolution apparently failed to get the required 2/3ds majority. See the English language section of Vaba Eesti Sona.

This is an important point that EKN might have seen fit to share with us but I suppose they wanted to put the best possible spin on it.

The good news? Well, EKN writes that "...the Assembly focused on the former totalitarian communist regimes of central and Eastern Europe as, without exception, massively violating human rights."

Since these regimes no longer exist they are no longer "massively violating human rights".

I wish EKN would get someone that knows the difference between past and present tense to edit their stuff.

The really bad news is the Maxim seems to be back. Wonder where his buddy Peter is. Maybe he is on winter break in some warm spot.
@ a loss04 Feb 2006 09:46
I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who noticed the "peculiar" language employed in this message. Because of its vague and awkward phrasing, I had to read it slowly and thoughtfully to understand it. The author was probably trying to strike a formal and intellectual tone, but it didn't work and, instead, the result is just plain ugly and fatuously ambiguous.
Merilo05 Feb 2006 00:09
I must agree that this article is one of the most mealy-mouthed ones I have ever read.

Either Laas or Avo have had a bad day.
Anonymous05 Feb 2006 08:09
It strikes me that Aavo always puts his name on his articles and his stuff is invariably up to scratch.

LL seems to be having quite a few bad days lately. Hope he is not having health problems.

Are you feeling OK Laas? A few of us out there worry about you.
merilo05 Feb 2006 08:21
sorry, I was drunk when I submitted the my last commentary.
hats off to merilo05 Feb 2006 09:33
I can't recall an instance of such blunt honesty -- in both of your messages -- without the cover of anonymity. I'm impressed.
Optimistic05 Feb 2006 08:50
If one can't attack the essence of a story, then divert the reader to irrelevant issues, namely some vague grammatical or stylistic deficiencies. That's classical KGB-FSB psy-ops. But it's unlikely the FSB would keep electronic surrveillance on an ex-patriot Estonian language web-site. Then one can attribute some of these commentaries to ignorance, lack of self confidence, intellectual impotency, alcohol etc. I'm optimistic that the European Council's Parliamentary Assembly resolution, even though it took prolonged back-room negotiation and debate, is an important milepost in gaining universal condemnation of communist crimes.
Ex-patroit?05 Feb 2006 09:18
..."expatriate" might be the word that you were looking for.
Anonymous05 Feb 2006 12:23
Quite frankly Merilo drunk makes more sense than the article does.

The shortcomings in the article go far beyond mere style and grammar.

It wouldn't much matter if it was just some old guy with broken English scribbling on the back of an envelope, but this organization claims to represent all Estonian-Canadians. Surely a little better effort could have been put into this important piece of news.

I cannot see that the FSB would much bother with us, especially given the subject matter which is readily available in the media.

The days when it was convenient to deflect any criticism by suggesting it was KGB disinformation operation are gone so whoever posted this is obviously living in the past.

From the style of the posting and language error I would hazzard a guess that it might be the author of the article himself.

Yes, this was an important milestone. Let us hope that the resolution passes next time and that EKN puts a little more effort into properly conveying the message in this very public forum.
Harri05 Feb 2006 19:07
Estonian-Canadians get the quality of public representation that they deserve because the only ones who seek such positions are unfit for conventional work. We resent them as dead-beats and they resent us for resenting them and they get their revenge by addressing us with unspeakable haughtiness.
You, "anonymous", are you willing to act as honourary consul? Probably not. Same goes for Merilo, although he might do a good job of it.
to07 Feb 2006 06:56
be specific ... what needs improvement ?
focus08 Feb 2006 19:54
To Harri: I don't agree with your statement that people in leadership positions in the Esto community are unfit for conventional work and that they are deadbeats.

These people care passionately about the community. The problem is, that we don't have enough people vying for their positions and our leaders are begged to stay on even when they are tired and no longer want the responsibility. Insulting them will only make them ask themselves, "Why bother?" and we may end up with no one stepping forward to replace them.

So please don't knock them with hurtful words, it would be better to volunteer in their organizations to improve things where you can.
Anonymous05 Feb 2006 18:31
For those of you interested, the background material can be found at

http://assembly.coe.int

Now why coudn't EKN give us this in their article?
Anonymous05 Feb 2006 19:44
Hey there Merilo quite a few of us think you probably would do a better job. Are you willing to take over the honorary consul's job? Itdoesn't pay but you get a few perks such as cheap booze and smokes for parties a couple of times each year. As well, you and the wife get invited to some great parties with others of the same ilk. You also get some prestiege from the red plates on the car but don't for a moment think this is going to provide you or your wife with any type of diplomatic immunity even though some of the older generation may think otherwise.
Unfortunately, many of our community leadership roles lately get filled through acclamation so yes, we get the type of leadership we deserve.
So let us quit complaining and do something positive already.
Time to get our act together06 Feb 2006 07:07
We have no right to judge Avo or Laas, because these people are filling posts and have invested a considerable amount of their time to do something for the Estonian community the best way they can, with little help from us.

More importantly, we as the Estonian community in Canada, HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL. Wake up, everyone! The community is slowly sliding into oblivion. We have no plan for our future here in Canada. Since the Eesti Liit Kanadas and the Toronto Eesti Selts are not playing major roles in guiding our community, then that job has been left to the EKN, whose mandate up until now has mainly been political.

EKN has elections coming up this spring. This is your chance to put your "money where your mouth is", so to speak, and become a member of EKN to effect change. EKN could beef up its responsibilities looking after the social needs of Estonians in Canada. They're already doing some of that now. Let's look at what other communities have done successfully and put these activities in place for the Estos.

And another thing: we have become a group of people, who do the "Estonian thing" because we are doing our Estonian duty. Let's make being Estonian fun again!

Kudos to the organizers of the Alice Fazooli gig ! And Saarlased for having dads and daughters perform together. That's something new and we need more of that.
to-"anonymous'" readers06 Feb 2006 07:08
I wouldn't read too much into what this person writes, since she appears to be determined to feminize the Canadian-Estonian community at all costs! Her logic doesn't sit squarely with male thinking, and that seems to seriously throw her constantly off balance. Also, she constantly criticizes anyone in any position of responsibility, but never shows any inclination to rise above others shortcomings and take on any position of responsibility herself. However, she is a mad-keen Estonian, and that certainly is of greater value than anything else that may go against her.
also anonymous06 Feb 2006 11:12
Which "anonymous" are you talking about?
to - to "anonymous" readers08 Feb 2006 05:18
You sound just like Maxim -- half silly, half incomprehensible.
Anna Nüüm08 Feb 2006 09:55
"We have no right to judge Avo or Laas,...have invested a considerable ... time to do something for the Estonian community the best way they can, with little help from us.

More importantly, we as the Estonian community in Canada, HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL. Wake up, everyone! ..."

You are absolutely right!
(The comment sounds a bit like Lia, who DOES do a lot of work and builds bridges in our community.)

I wish people would stop criticizing the very people who actually DO THINGS for Eestlus in Toronto and Canada! Like others have said, "would you do these thankless jobs?"

Please people - go out there and put your name in the hat for the EKN elections! .... and then DO something yourself!!
As for Toronto Eesti Selts, as far as I've heard, it is ready for burial. Very unfortunate, TES should be the umbrella for all Toronto Estonian organizations. We need to work together. From what I understand, Merilo has stepped down as the Esimees (not that he did much in that role anyway) and now the organization is without a leader. (who was it who suggested Merilo for EKN???... gimme a break!) ... but as not to be a hypocrite, Merilo was also doing a thankless job, which others were not willing to do. So thank you Toomas!
Anna Nüüm08 Feb 2006 09:58
My comment was in reference to:
Time to get our act together
lugeja06 Feb 2006 16:23
important article, well written ...... some people can follow lucid thinking
kurb07 Feb 2006 14:09

Aside from the convoluted English and grammatical errors which should not be allowed to happen in a published newspaper article (even one published by "ex-patriots"), the most serious fault is that the article fails to note that the resolution did not receive sufficent support to be adopted.

As such, it appears to be dead in the water for some time yet and possibly may never get revived unless pressure is kept up.

This fact is most disheartening and significantly detracts from what would otherwise have been a significnat milepost in getting the free world to fully understand and accept the horrific extent of totalitarian communist regime crimes.

The work done by the Swede who put it together was excellent and should have been carried by the mainline media. Unfortunately, a quick web search indicates that except for EE only the communist organs gave the issue coverage which as can be expected was biased and self serving.

Furthermore, this article did not comment or provide any analysis on why this happened, namely that communists and their fellow travellers still have significant influence at the Council of Europe.

One easily gets an erroneous impression from reading the article that all is well and that communist systems will finally be recognized for what the evil regimes they were and what some still are.

This is not the case and the Baltic States and others that suffered terribly under Communsism are being marginalized because of political expediency and the need to keep the gas and oil flowing to Europe.

I would have expected that EKN being a political outfit would have somebody advising them on political issues such as this.

Come on EKN. We do appreciate your efforts but you can do somewhat better. You might even consider asking somebody with the requisite anylytical and literary skills to volunteer to help.


to kurb08 Feb 2006 06:35
Ah stop whining and whinging-there's no-one else willing to do the dirty work, and the last thing our community needs is more armchair critics like you! Get off your butt and do something, if you don't like the way things are done at the moment. The doers are too busy doing a difficult and thankless task, and the no-hopers are here putting them down. It's the same old merry-go-round all the time. Besides, some virtually non-existent Baltic community is NOT going to change the opinion of world leaders, so don't fool yourself for another minute with that thought. They think the way they do because that's the collective mentality of our leaders.
One reader's oppinion08 Feb 2006 06:36
To Kurb:
Wow! You seem to be quite a bit "in the know". Might you consider offering EKN your services? They could use your help. I actually would like to read articles like your last comment.

Or at least, please consider offering analytical articles on such issues to Eesti Elu.
Ants08 Feb 2006 06:46
Go to the above site for a lot of good information on this theme.
Hey, Mr.Merilo!08 Feb 2006 12:51
Did you catch flak as the head of the TES from people unwilling to contribute, much like Laas has gotten it here?
Laas has his shortcomings, especially in the area of communications; and he can also be laughably pompous. But, can anyone nominate someone who will do a better job? Somehow, I doubt it.
I'd nominate you, Mr.Merilo, but I doubt that you'd consider such an appointment.
to this commentator08 Feb 2006 13:02
It's just laughable how many people criticize our community leaders, yet these same people are totally unwilling to do anything to improve the situation. Our community is almost washed up, and still the negative vibes flow on. When will it stop? My guess is that these people know that our community is all but relegated to the dustbin of history, and for that reason they continue to kick a lame duck when they know that it doesn't much matter whether you help or hinder other people's efforts. Our time is up!
.08 Feb 2006 13:07
Whilst some people here kicked and punched as hard as they could, it seems that in hindsight Peter and Maxim made these columns among the most interesting that EE produced. Their passing is sorely missed, but no-one's really interested in building our Toronto community into a better organized network anyway. It's just sad that now all we have left are the dregs of our community flushing out stupid and petty comments that lead us nowhere.
Alas08 Feb 2006 13:36
Maxim hasn't gone anywhere. You can find him on the previous page of comments under the name: to-"anonymous" readers.
Anna Nüüm08 Feb 2006 13:54
Montreal Eesti Selts died and is reborn. We have small communities all over Canada and the US, that have survived near extinction yet have come out with new vigour.
I believe we can do it.
Just drop the negativity and back-stabbing!!!
How about a little round of "Eestlane Olen ja Eestlaseks Jään"?
... that's it... caught you smirking!
kodanik08 Feb 2006 14:38
noh, eesti on nüüd taas vaba ja ikka baltimere idalrannal ... nii et kui soovite olla eestlased, siis ärge nurisege, hea võimalus onn ... tehke midagi !
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